(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[AGA]SZ[19]KM[7.50]
GN[2014 Cotsen Open]PW[Xiaotian Hu]PB[Beomgeun Cho]WR[7d]BR[7d]DT[2014-10-25]EV[2014 Cotsen Open]RO[3]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]US[Chris Garlock]C[eladzap [6k\]: USGO
eladzap [6k\]: i have a question
]RE[B+10.50]
;B[cp]
;W[pp]C[USGO1 [-\]: sure, what is it?
]
;B[dc]
;W[pc]
;B[nq]
;W[ep]C[eladzap [6k\]: can a european go player take part in us tournaments?
]
;B[qn]C[USGO1 [-\]: I believe so, as long as they're a member of their national go organization, but I'll have to check to confirm
eladzap [6k\]: i am a member of my national go organization in fact im one the officals
pipong [2d\]: maybe you should make them invit you then ^^
]
;W[pn]
;B[pm]
;W[on]
;B[qp]
;W[qo]
;B[ro]
;W[po]
;B[rm]
;W[qq]
;B[rp]C[clydesdale [3k\]: use the horse's head technique
eladzap [6k\]: this shape looks wierd, never seen this vefore
eladzap [6k\]: before*
pipong [2d\]: common joseki
savle [3d\]: it's common
]
;W[oq]C[savle [3d\]: but i don't like the shape either :)
]
;B[gq]C[eladzap [6k\]: lol
pipong [2d\]: p3 thought , i didn't saw before
eladzap [6k\]: ive never seen this joseki before
pipong [2d\]: then he dosn't like the shape either
Sabbaticus [13k\]: Is this a tournament?
eladzap [6k\]: yeah
savle [3d\]: I've never seen the name 'Beomgeun'. Anyone know what it means?
Sabbaticus [13k\]: US nationals?
eladzap [6k\]: US+Canada , dont forget canada
eladzap [6k\]: Canada are bros
Sabbaticus [13k\]: Ah, thanks you
source [6d?\]: how many rounds is this shindig?
Sabbaticus [13k\]: Savle, I assume "Beomgeun" means "I'm really good and will kick your ass".
eladzap [6k\]: i think 5 rounds
]
;W[cq]C[eladzap [6k\]: d3 ?
source [6d?\]: these 2 both undefeated?
eladzap [6k\]: source what do you think is the best joseki here?
source [6d?\]: d3 /shrug
eladzap [6k\]: shrug?
whuang [4d\]: I think C 7
eladzap [6k\]: i thougth about d3 aswell
eladzap [6k\]: yeah but
eladzap [6k\]: what if white f3 
whuang [4d\]: Extend
U [2d?\]: be happy
eladzap [6k\]: extend? how?
savle [3d\]: click
]
;B[jp]C[U [2d?\]: or i guess take the imprtant side immediately
eladzap [6k\]: i like this move
savle [3d\]: this gets messy
]
;W[dp]
;B[co]
;W[dn]
;B[bq]C[savle [3d\]: b plays quite light moves
dxxd [1k\]: what is d6
savle [3d\]: I think w is gonna lose this
eladzap [6k\]: why you say that so soon?
savle [3d\]: Just a feeling.
eladzap [6k\]: its not over until its over
pipong [2d\]: p3 was too passive maybe
savle [3d\]: w feels out of rhythm
]
;W[dr]
;B[cr]
;W[dq]
;B[br]
;W[cn]
;B[bn]
;W[bm]
;B[bo]C[notMe [1k\]: w seems to lofe that ET
notMe [1k\]: lov
savle [3d\]: extraterrestrial?
notMe [1k\]: empty triangle
savle [3d\]: i think b is trolling a bit
YesChoboco [-\]: indeed
]
;W[fn]C[YesChoboco [-\]: c8 is quite obvious
savle [3d\]: no
pipong [2d\]: played b2 because he considered it was still possible to pressure w after this ?
savle [3d\]: because he needed to
savle [3d\]: bot group is weak enough
savle [3d\]: better not run for life with 2 groups
dxxd [1k\]: o4 maybe
pipong [2d\]: obviously not you mean ?
savle [3d\]: c8 is bad shape here
savle [3d\]: so
pipong [2d\]: b have to defend i think
savle [3d\]: bot needs something
savle [3d\]: O4 is probably too slow for b's liking
]
;B[ce]C[YesChoboco [-\]: r8 now
]
;W[ql]C[savle [3d\]: no
]
;B[qm]
;W[lq]C[savle [3d\]: b will sacrifice
]
;B[pe]C[pipong [2d\]: savle why bot instead of both ?
savle [3d\]: hm?
savle [3d\]: what do you mean?
]
;W[qg]C[pipong [2d\]: was wondering why you keep speaking of bot , reraed yourself ^^
dxxd [1k\]: i would play k6 as w maybe
savle [3d\]: bot needed something if b had wanted it to live
pipong [2d\]: reread*
savle [3d\]: oh you just wanted to play games instead of communicating something
]
;B[of]
;W[mc]C[pipong [2d\]: you want to play ?
]
;B[qc]C[U [2d?\]: he means bottom when he says bot
eladzap [6k\]: USGO how many time each player have?
pipong [2d\]: ho thx
pipong [2d\]: U
]
;W[qd]
;B[pd]
;W[qe]
;B[oc]
;W[pb]
;B[nc]
;W[qb]
;B[md]
;W[ic]
;B[gc]
;W[lc]C[USGO1 [-\]: 45m each
pipong [2d\]: sure reading bot , then both instead of bottom was confusing
USGO1 [-\]: and welcome back for the final round of the 2014 Cotsen Open!
]
;B[rc]
;W[rd]C[pipong [2d\]: the winner get a place for the next pro qualif that's it ?
]
;B[ld]
;W[kd]C[savle [3d\]: Hint: If you ask for clarification, use quotation marks: [Why "bot" instead of "both"?\]. :)
]
;B[rb]
;W[ra]C[savle [3d\]: Then your question makes sense to me as well.
]
;B[jd]C[pipong [2d\]: i tought you were just mistyping ^^
savle [3d\]: I rarely do.
]
;W[ke]
;B[kc]
;W[jc]
;B[kb]
;W[ie]C[savle [3d\]: time for a big move
savle [3d\]: a game-deciding move
]
;B[do]
;W[eo]
;B[em]
;W[en]
;B[cl]
;W[jr]
;B[lp]
;W[mq]C[bjlu [2k\]: i prefer w thinking
]
;B[hd]
;W[id]
;B[jf]
;W[je]
;B[go]
;W[gn]
;B[in]
;W[ck]
;B[dk]
;W[dj]C[savle [3d\]: ladder doesn't yet work for b
]
;B[ek]
;W[ho]
;B[ir]C[bjlu [2k\]: it looks does not work for b
]
;W[jq]
;B[ip]
;W[hp]
;B[iq]
;W[io]
;B[mp]
;W[nr]
;B[kn]
;W[jn]
;B[km]
;W[jm]
;B[jo]C[YesChoboco [-\]: it doesnt work
]
;W[kl]C[savle [3d\]: K5 only prevents L5 as far as I can tell
savle [3d\]: cut and jump?
]
;B[jl]
;W[im]
;B[ll]
;W[kk]
;B[mm]C[savle [3d\]: B8?
]
;W[lk]C[savle [3d\]: hm
]
;B[mk]
;W[mj]
;B[nk]
;W[bk]
;B[bl]
;W[dl]
;B[am]
;W[cm]
;B[al]
;W[an]
;B[ao]C[savle [3d\]: hence b8
]
;W[ci]C[savle [3d\]: slurp
byte [1k\]: slurp?
savle [3d\]: well
savle [3d\]: b could D7 if he wanted
savle [3d\]: but maybe in the spirit of M9, he will E10 first
savle [3d\]: or
savle [3d\]: elsewhere
savle [3d\]: something with K8 perhaps
]
;B[jj]C[savle [3d\]: well
eladzap [6k\]: well
savle [3d\]: three's a charm
eladzap [6k\]: why not  j8 first?
royu [4d\]: b might want to h7 later or use the move as a ko threat
Koons [1k\]: to preserve eye stealing aji at h7 i suspect
basicpract [-\]: h7 might have potential
savle [3d\]: b just wants to nullify w's wall
USGO1 [-\]: Hm; evan just thought Hu resigned but it was a misunderstanding
savle [3d\]: J8 is vulgar
eladzap [6k\]: lol
]
;W[hk]C[royu [4d\]: k10 is really nice here btw... completely stifled w's plans in the middle
basicpract [-\]: "vulgar" is only a useful term because of the reasons mentioned :P
]
;B[il]
;W[hm]
;B[hj]
;W[gj]
;B[hi]
;W[li]C[savle [3d\]: L11 and the dance goes on
whuang [4d\]: No time limits? O_O
]
;B[gi]C[savle [3d\]: for the demo
whuang [4d\]: Ah
whuang [4d\]: They must have 2 hours per player or something
savle [3d\]: you wouldn't want scribes on a time limit haha
savle [3d\]: 45min
Koons [1k\]: 45 mins
savle [3d\]: b barely used any
corners [-\]: it's like the old days, they're planning to play through the night and most of tomorrow
TheMabarz [?\]: Would be a bit hard for the scribe to play the moves at the exact same time as the players ^^
savle [3d\]: wms could program a webcam to record the match
]
;W[fj]C[savle [3d\]: live
]
;B[gf]
;W[gb]
;B[fb]
;W[nj]C[TheMabarz [?\]: I think these games are actually live on EuroGoTV, but i'm not sure
]
;B[oj]
;W[oi]
;B[pj]
;W[pi]C[eladzap [6k\]: really?
]
;B[qj]C[savle [3d\]: Should be NAGoTV
]
;W[me]C[bert [1d?\]: nag nag
savle [3d\]: unless I missed something big
TheMabarz [?\]: Does this really exist, savle ?
savle [3d\]: What really exists anyway?
]
;B[nd]C[TheMabarz [?\]: Nothing or everything, depending on the point of view
savle [3d\]: In the US, a legal "person" is defined (by extension) as a "fictitious person".
TheMabarz [?\]: I guess
]
;W[pf]C[savle [3d\]: So even though there's a name for 'it', does 'it' exist?
]
;B[pg]
;W[qf]
;B[mf]
;W[oe]
;B[od]
;W[jb]
;B[mb]
;W[ka]
;B[lb]
;W[hb]C[TheMabarz [?\]: Exist doesn't mean live
savle [3d\]: Doesn't have to.
Koons [1k\]: hey y'all, take it to another room
Hurakami [1d\]: you two, get a room!
TheMabarz [?\]: Meh, I asked a simple question but apparently he didn't want to answer it, sorry
]
;B[dm]C[TheMabarz [?\]: We'll stop it here
capacitor [-\]: Thank you.
Koons [1k\]: the answer to your question is no
savle [3d\]: slurp
]
;W[fi]C[Koons [1k\]: there is not NAGoTV
]
;B[cg]C[savle [3d\]: One more niche in the market.
]
;W[eb]C[TheMabarz [?\]: Thanks, but I had the time to Google it since ^^
]
;B[fc]C[Hurakami [1d\]: NA Go Tv?
Hurakami [1d\]: Like North America?
savle [3d\]: Google indexes about ... 1% of all websites? Wouldn't trust it.
]
;W[fg]C[savle [3d\]: And then it censors stuff out.
Hurakami [1d\]: I think.. Around 3%
Hurakami [1d\]: actually
savle [3d\]: Very unreliable.
]
;B[dh]
;W[ej]C[Hurakami [1d\]: but it's hard to decide, what you actually call a website
TheMabarz [?\]: But I doubt that an American Go TV's website would be hosted in the deep web
savle [3d\]: anything reachable by port 80
Hurakami [1d\]: Heh
Hurakami [1d\]: Some websites arent reachable by port 80 :-)
capacitor [-\]: Please keep the conversation relevant to the game.
]
;B[fa]C[Hurakami [1d\]: And some webservices are, but they are not websites
]
;W[ff]C[whuang [4d\]: Who is winning as of now?
savle [3d\]: hard to count
TheMabarz [?\]: Well, capacitor, some people are watching this game through port 80 ;)
Hurakami [1d\]: Exactly
]
;B[gg]
;W[df]
;B[cf]
;W[ri]C[Hurakami [1d\]: google indexes 99% of static, publicly accesible websites (Without anonymous VPN's and so on).
]
;B[qi]
;W[qh]
;B[rj]
;W[jh]C[savle [3d\]: J13?
Hurakami [1d\]: I don't see how it's irrelevant
Hurakami [1d\]: we're on the web, watching this game, discussing about the web
Hurakami [1d\]: =P
TheMabarz [?\]: Leave it here, Hurakami
Hurakami [1d\]: Alrigh
]
;B[ji]C[Hurakami [1d\]: g15 now?
savle [3d\]: G15?
Hurakami [1d\]: doesnt seem to work to the end// But complicated
]
;W[kh]
;B[ge]C[bert [1d?\]: and g15 it is
Ifrit [2d\]: s2
]
;W[ol]C[TheMabarz [?\]: black did a really good job denying w's plans for the center btw
Hurakami [1d\]: Woah
Hurakami [1d\]: interesting!!!
]
;B[om]
;W[nl]C[Hurakami [1d\]: nice
Hurakami [1d\]: it works
]
;B[ok]C[Hurakami [1d\]: somewhat
TheMabarz [?\]: Does it ?
]
;W[mn]
;B[nm]
;W[rq]C[Hurakami [1d\]: I guess it doesnt
]
;B[ob]
;W[sc]C[savle [3d\]: well
USGO1 [-\]: Hu shaking his head
savle [3d\]: i think b's ahead
]
;B[og]C[Ifrit [2d\]: b12 ?
]
;W[le]C[savle [3d\]: :)
]
;B[ne]
;W[bh]
;B[bg]
;W[ed]
;B[ec]
;W[dd]
;B[cd]
;W[np]C[yw [?\]: i'd shake my head too when my opponent plays a 3 pt gote move like p13 
USGO1 [-\]: hu in ot
]
;B[sq]
;W[sr]
;B[sp]
;W[sh]
;B[rr]
;W[qr]
;B[ss]
;W[mo]
;B[kq]C[Ifrit [2d\]: f2 ?
]
;W[ko]C[TheMabarz [?\]: Ouch
savle [3d\]: L2
mkeller [1k\]: ?
savle [3d\]: um
]
;B[js]C[mkeller [1k\]: That don't look too good
Ifrit [2d\]: o: ?
Prodigious [-\]: ah, clever
savle [3d\]: L3 is a bit silly
]
;W[lm]
;B[ln]
;W[lo]C[awesome [3k\]: ouch ouch ouch
USGO1 [-\]: now cho is shaking his head
savle [3d\]: well
savle [3d\]: his fault
Koons [1k\]: and for good reason
savle [3d\]: ruining my predictions here
]
;B[kr]
;W[gs]C[TheMabarz [?\]: Well... I might as well stop counting territories... Isn't really worth it now
savle [3d\]: M2
]
;B[fr]
;W[fs]
;B[hs]
;W[es]C[bert [1d?\]: g4 
]
;B[gp]
;W[lm]
;B[ml]C[TheMabarz [?\]: He didn't kill, but that was a free 7points sente move :/
]
;W[jk]C[savle [3d\]: more than 7
savle [3d\]: not sure if it's enough
]
;B[ik]
;W[hl]
;B[ij]C[savle [3d\]: but that was bad
]
;W[ak]
;B[el]
;W[fh]C[whuang [4d\]: :)
Eros [1k\]: close game
savle [3d\]: J13 pls
savle [3d\]: or sth like it
]
;B[if]
;W[ih]
;B[hg]
;W[lr]
;B[hq]
;W[hn]
;B[ch]
;W[ai]C[savle [3d\]: L10
Eros [1k\]: M2 bigger than L4?
savle [3d\]: R1
TheMabarz [?\]: I think black is still slightly ahead
]
;B[qs]
;W[ps]C[savle [3d\]: T2
eladzap [6k\]: Savle your a genius
]
;B[kp]
;W[rs]C[whuang [4d\]: ^^
]
;B[sr]
;W[gr]
;B[hr]
;W[fq]
;B[qs]C[savle [3d\]: Nah, arrogance just looks like genius from below.
]
;W[pr]C[savle [3d\]: No wait
savle [3d\]: :P
awesome [3k\]: lol
]
;B[ls]
;W[ms]
;B[pa]
;W[cs]
;B[bs]
;W[sb]C[Genghis [2k\]: I think it is something like 50 to 46 black, depending on komi
savle [3d\]: sneaky c1
]
;B[mh]
;W[nh]
;B[ng]
;W[lg]
;B[mg]C[whuang [4d\]: Black seems to be winning by a slight margin
]
;W[ga]
;B[mi]C[savle [3d\]: if he wins by .5 he was definitely trolling
]
;W[ni]
;B[lh]C[TheMabarz [?\]: It's all up to the yose
]
;W[ki]
;B[lf]
;W[kg]
;B[nn]
;W[no]C[whuang [4d\]: There isn't much yose left.
Eros [1k\]: b win
Eros [1k\]: game over
]
;B[ag]
;W[fd]
;B[he]
;W[kf]
;B[ig]
;W[fl]
;B[la]C[whuang [4d\]: Not necesarrily
]
;W[ja]
;B[ds]
;W[er]C[whuang [4d\]: *Necessarily
]
;B[ah]
;W[bi]
;B[sj]
;W[si]
;B[fk]
;W[gk]
;B[an]
;W[fm]
;B[dl]C[savle [3d\]: fill, fill, ko
]
;W[qa]
;B[oa]
;W[ks]C[eladzap [6k\]: e12 point
whuang [4d\]: Black wins by around 3 pts
]
;B[cs]
;W[ls]C[awesome [3k\]: l10 not a point?
TheMabarz [?\]: He won this game by denying w's influence on the center... Those moves around the center were really cool
]
;B[rs]
;W[fe]
;B[de]
;W[ee]
;B[eh]C[awesome [3k\]: ah l10 nothing
bljs1 [2k\]: l10 q12
]
;W[hc]
;B[gd]
;W[kj]
;B[ph]
;W[lj]C[savle [3d\]: Go intuition :P
USGO1 [-\]: just filling dame now
USGO1 [-\]: counting
TheMabarz [?\]: B +4.5 I guess ?
eladzap [6k\]: TheM u used Score Est
eladzap [6k\]: cheater
savle [3d\]: oh it's AGA rules
savle [3d\]: W prob win by 20 then haha
eladzap [6k\]: Aga rules?
whuang [4d\]: lol
awesome [3k\]: 9,5?
savle [3d\]: SE is weird with non-JPN rulesets
whuang [4d\]: AGA rules=SE troller
rsun [5d\]: w wins with group tax
TheMabarz [?\]: Nope... Not on the client, using the applet, and SE says +5.5 apparently
eladzap [6k\]: Japanese rules are the best
TheMabarz [?\]: OH and didn't notice this was AGA >_>"
Polite [17k\]: I've learned Japanese culturally, but I like Chinese/AGA
USGO1 [-\]: b by 10.5 after komi
savle [3d\]: cool
eladzap [6k\]: black won cuz he took tengen
eladzap [6k\]: tengen always wins the game
savle [3d\]: called it
awesome [3k\]: weird how some players miss that simple rule
eladzap [6k\]: i know right
awesome [3k\]: thx usgo1
bljs1 [2k\]: thx
whuang [4d\]: :P
TheMabarz [?\]: Not necessarily the tengen, but yeah those moves around the center were really well played by black
eladzap [6k\]: TheMabraz you have any sence of humor?
rsun [5d\]: so b wins even with group tax
TheMabarz [?\]: I do, but I'm reaaaaally tired :(
roboteddy [26k?\]: white is almost fully connected -- is that rare?
rsun [5d\]: no
savle [3d\]: You can't honestly say tired disyllabic quips were actually humorous.
TheMabarz [?\]: And English isn't my main language so... makes it even more difficult
TheMabarz [?\]: btw, what does "quips" mean ?
Oloril [-\]: a quip is much akin to a whip, but snappier
Koons [1k\]: a quip is a short clever comment
TheMabarz [?\]: I see
TheMabarz [?\]: Which is often used for trolling purposes in internet conversations ? ;)
])
