(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[AGA]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[5400]OT[5x30 byo-yomi]
GN[2014 US Open Masters, Board 1, Mark Lee (w) vs Hu Ziyang (B)]PW[Mark Lee]PB[Ziyang (Matthew) Hu]WR[7d]BR[2p]DT[2014-08-12]RO[5]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]US[Andrew Jackson]C[Jermelle [-\]: did the game begin?
USGO1 [-\]: Hello and welcome back to the continuing coverage of the 2014 US Open Master's division, a nine round tournament played in the heart of NEW YORK CITY
USGO1 [-\]: at the *fabulous* Hotel Pennsylvania
USGO1 [-\]: I'm Andrew Jackson and I'll be your recorder for the evening.
USGO1 [-\]: Exciting match tonight, with Hu Ziyang, at a terrifying 17-2 record, holding black against a new challenger, Mark Lee
USGO1 [-\]: Mr. Lee has defeated Bill Lin, Calvin Sun, Michael (Zhaonian) Chen, and this morning, Ryan Li
USGO1 [-\]: Correction -- that means Hu Ziyang's lifetime AGA record is 21-2
USGO1 [-\]: We're waiting for the room to settle, and the players to arrive.
USGO1 [-\]: Current results and crosstabs can be found here: http://www.usgo.org/tournaments/crosstab/band-matrix/170
USGO1 [-\]: Games have begun and Mr. Hu is not in his seat.  I'll let you know if we start his clock!
TheThe [5k\]: so no video right? 
USGO1 [-\]: Correct.
TheThe [5k\]: :-(
USGO1 [-\]: here he comes, wearing a t-shirt that says "I was young, i needed the money"
USGO1 [-\]: ...hopefully a mistranslation
USGO1 [-\]: and we're off!
]RE[W+Resign]
;B[dp]C[Justin9202 [8k\]: andrew jackson can i get somr free dollar bills from you? you are on them after all 
]
;W[pp]C[TheThe [5k\]: so the t-shirt explains what happened to webcam then ;-)
]
;B[cd]C[kirbywarp [?\]: It was either one or the other?
]
;W[pc]
;B[fc]C[USGO1 [-\]: Ziyang is seated facing the windows, showing the manhattan skyline
edlee [1k\]: Hi Andrew :)
USGO1 [-\]: Mr. Lee facing the door
]
;W[cn]
;B[fq]C[rusty [2k\]: f 17 anticapates q 15 enclosure?
zhou901108 [3d\]: poor lee
AndEdhel [4k\]: Usgo1, already thanks for the lively coverage! Very nice.
Justin9202 [8k\]:  im guessing that means Ziyang is older ^_ ^
zhou901108 [3d\]: Ziyang is very young i think
AndEdhel [4k\]: The one facing the door is usually the guest, so he can see incoming persons (attackers, in the old days)
]
;W[bp]C[Roooa: f17 is a little unusal nowadays
Roooa: imo
Justin9202 [8k\]:  well in the old days they would seat the eldist farthest from teh door for the same reason 
corners [-\]: is Mark Lee from the US? Haven't seen any games by him before, and he must be pretty strong to have beaten all those players
edlee [1k\]: Mark is not under 16, is he ?
USGO1 [-\]: Not much is known about Mr. Lee!
Justin9202 [8k\]:  He is a ninja ^_^ so he keeps his identity secret ^_^ 
USGO1 [-\]: but his four defeated opponents are all very impressive.
Justin9202 [8k\]:  or info that is 
USGO1 [-\]: so we're curious :)
rusty [2k\]: That's why I asked about it. USGO1, what is the komi?
xedover [?\]: Mark Lee 18 years old from Korea, is a student of Myungwan Kim and will be going to school here in the US
corners [-\]: ah, thanks
trumie [2d\]: Andrew is Ho Son there?  If so, has he learned to use an Ing clock yet?
edlee [1k\]: then Mark is older
edlee [1k\]: thanks, xedover
zhou901108 [3d\]: what is the time setting here
Justin9202 [8k\]:  komi is 7.5
Roooa: Yes, Mark Lee a new face.
Justin9202 [8k\]: 30 minutes a round i think 
USGO1 [-\]: i can only comment on the game
corners [-\]: c8 or c7 would make sense here
USGO1 [-\]: 1 hr 30min main time, 5x30 byo
Roooa: Hope he is a fighter!  Yes, c7/c8 direction seems natural
xedover [?\]: Mark Lee was a yeonguseng in Korea and the top group, the A league
rusty [2k\]: Then f 17 seems very strange to me
corners [-\]: also b is probably considering tenuki to r15 or something
namtg [2k\]: hmmm than mark must be very strong
adv: c8 is way too calm for a korean...
corners [-\]: (or o3)
Roooa: I saw c8 just a few days ago reviewing a Lee changho game :P
zhou901108 [3d\]: f17 is getting popular now, since komi has increased for b
rusty [2k\]: probaably considering the c 7 attachment, Korean joseki
spiritburd [1d\]: c8 is the move I would play hmm
spiritburd [1d\]: c7 is outdated
]
;B[nq]C[Justin9202 [8k\]: wait komi increased? i thought it was only increased cause of chinese rules?
Justin9202 [8k\]:  or is japanese rules increasing it too 
gogol1er [1d\]: tenuki much better
rusty [2k\]: really, zhou? It seems leasurely for a large Komi
lance [1k\]: AGA rules
Justin9202 [8k\]:  or is it increased for aga rules
Justin9202 [8k\]:  hmmm 
Justin9202 [8k\]: intersting
zhou901108 [3d\]: i thought it was 6.5 before
]
;W[gp]C[okiol [-\]: AGA is the same branch of rules as chinese
adv: THAT's interesting
Justin9202 [8k\]:  ok
AndEdhel [4k\]: G4 looks good here
Tomer [6k\]: This is identical so far to a Lee Sedol game from last year
kirbywarp [?\]: so this game is using chinese scoring?
spiritburd [1d\]: AGA
okiol [-\]: no, AGA is slightly different from chinese
Tirno [4d\]: so g4 is from a lee sedol game?
spiritburd [1d\]: its the American go congress
kirbywarp [?\]: I'll have to look it up...
Tomer [6k\]: yea but sedol was black
Tomer [6k\]: he played f4 here
rusty [2k\]: I don't know this variation at all 
zhou901108 [3d\]: i wanna play j4 here
okiol [-\]: i can't remember what they're called... one of them is called territory counting, i guess that's the japanese side, but what's the chinese side? border counting? stone counting? i can't remember ^^
spiritburd [1d\]: f4 seems like the only option nice
appleseeds [4k\]: area counting
bug2 [3d\]: g4 is once very popular inkorean 
okiol [-\]: ah right, area counting
okiol [-\]: so for area counting 7.5 makes more sense, because every placed stone gives a point
rusty [2k\]: j4 looks interesting, I think whites aim is to pincer o3 away from thickness he will get if black pushes up at f 4  
kirbywarp [?\]: oh weird, I'd never heard of "pass stones" before...
]
;B[fp]
;W[go]
;B[fn]C[zhou901108 [3d\]: pass stone what is that
kirbywarp [?\]: you hand a stone over (as a prisoner I think) when you pass.
okiol [-\]: l4
zhou901108 [3d\]: ah, right
okiol [-\]: that's for japanese when determining wether a group is dead, right?
kirbywarp [?\]: it's for making area scoring and territory scoring equivalent.
zhou901108 [3d\]: g3 is like necessary i think
spiritburd [1d\]: f6 rather aggressive
zhou901108 [3d\]: here
spiritburd [1d\]: r6 next
]
;W[dm]C[okiol [-\]: wow i really really really didn't expect d7
corners [-\]: it's a sort of peep
okiol [-\]: oh yes i see
corners [-\]: looks nice
]
;B[qn]C[okiol [-\]: ok so b answers this, then w is back to his plan
kirbywarp [?\]: trying to keep the side open, given the big enclosure at the top left?
okiol [-\]: ... ornot
edlee [1k\]: but gote :)
corners [-\]: p5 r3 f5 
okiol [-\]: for some defintion of gote
okiol [-\]: b will have to pay for tenuki
spiritburd [1d\]: Think white made a mistake here
AndEdhel [4k\]: C3 first?
spiritburd [1d\]: p5 
tuerda [1d\]: i doubt w will ignore R6 to cut at F5 though
bug2 [3d\]: not, w seems have a little score in here
okiol [-\]: if w p5 it's a sente sequence
corners [-\]: c3 is worthwhile if w can attack the b group severely, but doubt that would work
zhou901108 [3d\]: c3 is not as good as h3 or g3 here i think
corners [-\]: for b you mean?
AndEdhel [4k\]: I meant c3 not played allows b to tenuki
zhou901108 [3d\]: yep
corners [-\]: ah
trumie [2d\]: I think w must have thought d7 was sente.  If he can get sente in lower right and come back to lower left, seems it would be good no?
okiol [-\]: c3 doesn't make sense for either player right now for me
tuerda [1d\]: H3 zhou? G3 I understand but H3 is just weird
corners [-\]: I'd rather connect than g3 or h3 (and h3 is thin, h2 is probably better)
ptitlou [2d\]: tuerda h3 for b
okiol [-\]: d7 makes g5 thick by miai anyway
tuerda [1d\]: oh
tuerda [1d\]: that makes much more sense
]
;W[np]
;B[mp]
;W[no]C[ptitlou [2d\]: at least I think it's what was meant ;-)
zhou901108 [3d\]: h3 is not like awful, but yeah may not be the best move
rockyfive [1d\]: i don't understand the meaning of g4 :S
]
;B[oq]C[okiol [-\]: o4 is saying since g5 is already thick you can't attack it anyway, and i couldn't really attack o3 because it's easy for b to undercut
corners [-\]: g4 ideally would flatten the bottom and turn o3 into a bad move (a move that wasn't in the most valuable area)
]
;W[pq]C[corners [-\]: of course, b didn't want to go along with that
okiol [-\]: ah i see, corners, that makes sense
AndEdhel [4k\]: Corners moves always make sense ;)
spiritburd [1d\]: hmm strange offer from white
tuerda [1d\]: w leaving a lot of hanging weaknesses
]
;B[pm]C[okiol [-\]: i was also wondering a bit about g4, but now perfect sense
okiol [-\]: where be weakness
okiol [-\]: g4 is *not* weak
tuerda [1d\]: not right now
zhou901108 [3d\]: l4 maybe?
okiol [-\]: right, he'll have to repair fairly soon
Rukis [2d\]: g4 is not strong either
rockyfive [1d\]: hmm yeah but anyway it looks like too early for g4 to me, but i'm only 1d xD
ccsco [1k\]: r5 now?
bug2 [3d\]: g4 is not light neither
okiol [-\]: it is strong like in it will be able to become strong before anything else happens without damaging w
]
;W[qo]
;B[ro]
;W[pn]C[AndEdhel [4k\]: R5 q5 doesnt seem good for w?
]
;B[rn]
;W[rp]C[spiritburd [1d\]: wow
]
;B[rq]C[corners [-\]: r5 q5 is usually ok because then b has to fix n3 cut
spiritburd [1d\]: white being pushed around
okiol [-\]: right rockyfive, i can't tell if g4 is good either, but atleast thanks to corners i can make sense of it, what its purpose is
corners [-\]: so w then gets a chance to s5
AndEdhel [4k\]: S3 looks very nice
trumie [2d\]: Spiritburd should entertain the possibility that his grasp of the game is not the same as those playing.  
KTC1685 [3k\]: t4 q2?
corners [-\]: s3 is joseki (careful not to p6 first or it won't work)
spiritburd [1d\]: 7 dan aga 
zhou901108 [3d\]: i know this joseki is good for b 
]
;W[or]C[okiol [-\]: no need to be condencending, trumie, we're all just fools trying to enjoy a great game here
corners [-\]: of course it's good, b had an extra move :P
okiol [-\]: don't you usually take that into account, corners?
corners [-\]: it's normal in that case isn't it?
corners [-\]: equal, that is
KTC1685 [3k\]: r3?
okiol [-\]: i thought he meant that it was unusually good even for b starting 2v1
corners [-\]: is it? I could be wrong, but I think it's reasonable for both
spiritburd [1d\]: g3 
okiol [-\]: for me the choice stands between o2 and something like l3 here
corners [-\]: usually just t4 is better than r3 KTC
okiol [-\]: oh, t4 is the move?
corners [-\]: if it went t4 r4 then b would r2, not r3
corners [-\]: (if he continued there at all)
]
;B[sp]
;W[mq]
;B[hr]C[okiol [-\]: w really conemplating his options deeply before choosing n3
spiritburd [1d\]: now black pays tribute 
]
;W[lq]C[KTC1685 [3k\]: why tribute?
okiol [-\]: i feel like all of this fight has been both players trying to force the other to take the bottom side
okiol [-\]: both are saying "no i HATE bottom side, sooo booring" over and over
]
;B[qe]C[bug2 [3d\]: b score here, i like b
Roooa: this game has weird shapes
okiol [-\]: and w finally saying "fine, if you're going to be a yerk about it"
pimpizi: why is atari not apart of the game very important in the play of go
Roooa: modern style ^_^
USGO1 [-\]: Ziyang is pretty fidgety, eyes everywhere
USGO1 [-\]: sits back and looks at everything
edlee [1k\]: unusual for him :)
KTC1685 [3k\]: i like b
]
;W[qh]C[Rukis [2d\]: sounds like hes board or has a headache
corners [-\]: I prefer b as well here. I'm not sure o4 with this plan was best
Roooa: yerks are bad.  they can control your mind
okiol [-\]: w aiming at r8 with this
USGO1 [-\]: Mark is much more still but is still playing with his hands
zhou901108 [3d\]: i like n17 pincer 
bug2 [3d\]: n16 or n17
alienist [5k\]: not if you don't have a mind
KTC1685 [3k\]: p16?
corners [-\]: p16 could be an option here
KTC1685 [3k\]: :-)
okiol [-\]: i call o17
bug2 [3d\]: p16 100% not a option
hdf: why not?
spiritburd [1d\]: hmm
okiol [-\]: oh nice some controversy
bug2 [3d\]: right side is small
okiol [-\]: is it?
spiritburd [1d\]: o15 is what they used to play not sure here tho
KTC1685 [3k\]: p16, p17, 016 p12?
bug2 [3d\]: or call it not easy to expand
okiol [-\]: b p6 and he can get some action going
KTC1685 [3k\]: sorry
spiritburd [1d\]: guessing r17 
AndEdhel [4k\]: "But... I came here for an argument!" (Monty python)
Sandmann [6d\]: left side is the largest
alienist [5k\]: after all mind just an explanatory fiction
corners [-\]: o16 n17 
KTC1685 [3k\]: p16, p17, o16, o17, p12?
spiritburd [1d\]: q16 is nice
corners [-\]: I don't think so, I think w would just extend again in that case KTC
corners [-\]: sorry, b would rather
Thou [5d\]: d10 ?
KTC1685 [3k\]: or instaed of p12  r10?
]
;B[md]C[Sandmann [6d\]: i would like to c8 but i'd be scared
]
;W[od]C[spiritburd [1d\]: hmmm
Thou [5d\]: don't like n16
okiol [-\]: n14
spiritburd [1d\]: me either
okiol [-\]: doit
egf3d: good idea to N16 i think, left side can become double wing
corners [-\]: usually you wouldn't want to let w hane up at n16 KTC. Then b would be short of liberties with those two stones
okiol [-\]: and then d10 boom
corners [-\]: and w would be getting up and out too
egf3d: w cannot kill r15 in 1 move as far as i can tell
corners [-\]: not cleanly
zhou901108 [3d\]: agree
Thou [5d\]: he can
Thou [5d\]: but r10 would be sente for b
USGO1 [-\]: both are eying the right side of the board
bug2 [3d\]: p16 is questionable, too slow
Sandmann [6d\]: if b's plan is to just exchange n16, he should put it farther to the left imo
corners [-\]: agreed with Thou
Thou [5d\]: p16 best move
Thou [5d\]: no question about it
spiritburd [1d\]: p16 is a common punisher here I think
alienist [5k\]: nice debate
zhou901108 [3d\]: hehe
egf3d: any other move but p16 would help b i think
edlee [1k\]: Andrew, is this board displayed from W's POV ?
Roooa: hmm now n16 looks a tiny ish thin
USGO1 [-\]: yes! I'm on his right
Thou [5d\]: its not a punish but usually you see n16 with r12 a bit further so r15 still has room
USGO1 [-\]: (hi ed!)
KTC1685 [3k\]: q14 here looks reasonable (for 3k :-))
Thou [5d\]: like this it might be a bit too easy on w
edlee [1k\]: so when you say W (hi Andrew!) do you mean Mark's right or Matt's ? :)
USGO1 [-\]: Mark's right.
USGO1 [-\]: his bowl is hiding T4/S4/S3 :(
edlee [1k\]: ok, the displayed right  :)
corners [-\]: or at n17, since then b can aim at r18
]
;B[jd]C[Thou [5d\]: now q14
Thou [5d\]: and then d10
]
;W[pf]C[zhou901108 [3d\]: is it too late to say i was also considering k16:P
egf3d: not d11 ?
corners [-\]: I'm curious why b didn't do n17 here actually instead of this
KTC1685 [3k\]: looks strange for b
Roooa: d10 a little thin?
]
;B[cj]
;W[cq]C[okiol [-\]: whoa
corners [-\]: n16 would seem better at n17 in this result anyways
USGO1 [-\]: c3 was very quick after c10
egf3d: i suspect this is why sandmann called c8 earlier
USGO1 [-\]: and mark gets up for a walk.
ikidakka [1k\]: f6
edlee [1k\]: Andrew, you can nudge the bowl now to see the T4 stones :)
okiol [-\]: e10 is the obvious move, right
corners [-\]: I guess b is playing very moyo oriented with this n16
USGO1 [-\]: nonono
egf3d: agree with e10
edlee [1k\]: hehe :)
Justin9202 [8k\]: Is that legal to leave the goban when a match is in session 
Justin9202 [8k\]:  ?
KTC1685 [3k\]: e10 is obvious but b will play another one :-D
okiol [-\]: but f10 lines up with f17 though
egf3d: though, e10 e2 ?
edlee [1k\]: yes justin
Thou [5d\]: what's so obvious about e10?
egf3d: its a box
Justin9202 [8k\]:  seems like it would put you at a disadvantage to me time wise 
egf3d: we like boxes
USGO1 [-\]: ziyang leans way back
okiol [-\]: i'm not saying that it's obvious that he actually SHOULD play it, but it's the first move mosts people will think of?
edlee [1k\]: justin, you can manage your time however you want. get some water, etc.
okiol [-\]: it's like if you got this position and had to make a move in 3 sec, most people would e10
Justin9202 [8k\]:  lol, well I try not to leave the board if i can help it 
egf3d: the first move i thought of was d3, but if b is fine with a "peep" at e2 then e10 is natural imo
edlee [1k\]: okiol, speak for yourself about "most people"
kirbywarp [?\]: would F10 make sense as well?
ikidakka [1k\]: g5 too strong
corners [-\]: painful to play d3 and make c3 sente
okiol [-\]: leaving board is often good, i sometimes stand up in front of computer to get new perspective
KTC1685 [3k\]: j4?
egf3d: f10 would be too thin, imo
zhou901108 [3d\]: o2 
okiol [-\]: you used that wrong, edlee, if i would say "all" you would've had a point
Kotonoha [4d\]: 2p stronger than 7d how much?
Kotonoha [4d\]: Is 2p =11d? 
edlee [1k\]: nope, speak for yourself.
corners [-\]: it's hard to say Kotonoha
egf3d: kotonoha: http://boardgames.stackexchange.com/q/5575/60
Justin9202 [8k\]:  2p kinda equals a 12 dan amateure i wanna say 
corners [-\]: not that strong
Justin9202 [8k\]:  cause there is no 12 dan amateur so it is pro level rank 
bug2 [3d\]: it depands
rsun [6d\]: 2p can give 7d 4 stones no problem
corners [-\]: depends on the 7d
zhou901108 [3d\]: 12 dan amateur sounds way better
]
;B[qc]C[KTC1685 [3k\]: wow
okiol [-\]: there is a pro who is 7d on kgs...
Thou [5d\]: r18 s18 
Kotonoha [4d\]: KGS7d is keep on weakenning ! ! ! !
Rukis [2d\]: no depends on the pro...
Thou [5d\]: sort of a prob
Thou [5d\]: i guess
Rukis [2d\]: 2p doesnt mean you are 12 stones strong..
USGO1 [-\]: this is my first time casting matthew's games this year -- i'd forgotten his habit, which is taking two stones and clicking them over each other
corners [-\]: more on the 7d than the pro for 4 stones
Kotonoha [4d\]: hi Rukis~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
USGO1 [-\]: he looks to the door for his opponent
egf3d: I suggest you have a look at the link instead of talking about 12d amateurs x)
bug2 [3d\]: no one can give 4 stones to group a insei
edlee [1k\]: andrew, he doesn't always do that. just sometimes  :)
USGO1 [-\]: out the window, storm clouds are rolling over NYC
Kotonoha [4d\]: Why not KGS organise a new competition of new rank [10d\] 
USGO1 [-\]: it's been threatening a rainstorm all day.
rsun [6d\]: does it make a sound when he clicks the stones?
USGO1 [-\]: yes
rsun [6d\]: that's very bad
okiol [-\]: that'd be awesome, kotonoha
kirbywarp [?\]: I'd assume it clicks
edlee [1k\]: but no rain ?
Kotonoha [4d\]: That would be cool for a competition of the crown of [10d\]
Justin9202 [8k\]:  cause 10 dan isnt an amateur rank 
Kotonoha [4d\]: Winner have the right to be the only [10d\] for a year 
okiol [-\]: kirby stole my thoughts
indianayk [5d\]: depending upon individuals, 7d handicap to 2p could be 1 to 3 stones
okiol [-\]: kotonoha, what if the same guy wins the next year? he becomes 11d?
kirbywarp [?\]: okiol, too bad it isn't your go-related thoughts... :)
Rukis [2d\]: could be 4 too indiana it just depends on the difference between players
corners [-\]: 0 even with some of the best
Kotonoha [4d\]: when I see indian's name , always think of a word : Indian's Hawk 
Kotonoha [4d\]: r16 q15 ...
Kotonoha [4d\]: hard to answer ! ! 
Thou [5d\]: r18 is a must
USGO1 [-\]: MarkLee is away from the board (and so is USGO1)
Thou [5d\]: dunno why it takes him so long
Kotonoha [4d\]: that is still finally you need to answer the problem of q15 crush out..
USGO1 [-\]: Ziyang checks his opponet's clock and stepsawaytoo
okiol [-\]: too short arms, thou
rsun [6d\]: because he's reading 50 moves after r18
USGO1 [-\]: Ziyang has 1:01 left, Mark's clock is ticking at 1:07...
rabfulton [2k\]: damn escapers
USGO1 [-\]: Ziyang is standing behind his chair looking at the board with his hands in his pockets.
Kotonoha [4d\]: can't play with KGSspirit: play first think later
Justin9202 [8k\]:  Saying life is like a box of chocolates ^_^
rsun [6d\]: I like how the bots just evaporate during congress
rockyfive [1d\]: lol 50 moves, I think i can read like 6 or 7, 10 maybe making a big effort, except ladders and net ofc
USGO1 [-\]: Mark is back.
Kotonoha [4d\]: there is no actual numbers, just concepts of how many plans you read
KTC1685 [3k\]: maybe ko after r18 s16 s17 q16?
corners [-\]: b planning r18 s18 maybe?
Kotonoha [4d\]: hey Cornels 
]
;W[qb]C[Thou [5d\]: s18 is standart
Sandmann [6d\]: locally b s17 is practically alive instead of r17
guapo [1k\]: are the pairings decided randomly?
Sandmann [6d\]: i dont see b's plan
Kotonoha [4d\]: rebellion at the strongest place of white !  
Sandmann [6d\]: imo b should defend around d15 because w is superthick
rockyfive [1d\]: but there is a limit when you can't keep with the secuence and you stop reading
rsun [6d\]: that probably means he doesn't want to be practically alive ;)
corners [-\]: even a small certain life seems a bit soon
Thou [5d\]: s18 is practially alive too
corners [-\]: if w gets p18 and other thickness for example...
Sandmann [6d\]: s18 is less alive
rsun [6d\]: he's probably planning a sacrifice - semedori - influence sequence
]
;B[rb]C[Kotonoha [4d\]: hey people, What is this game for?????????
]
;W[qd]
;B[rc]
;W[ob]
;B[qa]C[spiritburd [1d\]: go congress
]
;W[pb]C[guapo [1k\]: honor and money
spiritburd [1d\]: usa
rsun [6d\]: for the return ticket
corners [-\]: US Open Masters Division Kotonoha
Kotonoha [4d\]: what is go congress?
Kotonoha [4d\]: oh 
]
;B[pe]C[Kotonoha [4d\]: Master ! 
Austin101 [2k\]: it's an AGA (United States) thing
USGO1 [-\]: w almost plays but draws back
]
;W[re]C[Kotonoha [4d\]: Are they also master in Asia? ^^ 
Thou [5d\]: this variation was played in a pro game where b didn't have n16
rsun [6d\]: no, the sub-masters in Asia fly here
rsun [6d\]: so they need to win the first prize for their return ticket
guapo [1k\]: p15
Austin101 [2k\]: idk
spiritburd [1d\]: haha rsun
odbira [3k\]: there are a few american pros recognized by korean pros
Thou [5d\]: s14 now
spiritburd [1d\]: odbira like who?
Roooa: s14 is my instinct too
guapo [1k\]: yeah who
Thou [5d\]: s14 s16 r14 q16 q13 
Kotonoha [4d\]: When will KGS organise a 1year right using [10d\] competition????
Thou [5d\]: its too good for b here imo
rsun [6d\]: 10d is not attractive
Kotonoha [4d\]: the only 10d in KGS 
guapo [1k\]: better than 9
Kotonoha [4d\]: would sound cool 
odbira [3k\]: Andy, Janice, ...
corners [-\]: not sure, after w extends b's bottom right will be getting weaker
rsun [6d\]: some people already 11d
egf3d: i dont see a way to refute thou's sequence
ptitlou [2d\]: well s14 r14 s16 p15
zhou901108 [3d\]: b dead here 
egf3d: s14 r14 p15 ?
Justin9202 [8k\]: s14 s16 is what i see
indianayk [5d\]: q15 looks bad
Burton [6k\]: will there be a pro commentary this evening??
Burton [6k\]: online
USGO1 [-\]: b almost plays S14 and draws back
]
;B[rf]
;W[rd]
;B[qf]
;W[pd]C[odbira [3k\]: Andy Is currently playing USGO05 game
zhou901108 [3d\]: b did play s14?
rsun [6d\]: yes
Sandmann [6d\]: almost
rockyfive [1d\]: this is so big for black
egf3d: n16 is not even damaged
egf3d: this looks great for b
indianayk [5d\]: do you have the link to show the latest result of the tournament?
USGO1 [-\]: http://www.usgo.org/tournaments/crosstab/band-matrix/170
indianayk [5d\]: thx
Kotonoha [4d\]: Who is MarkLee on KGS? 
Sandmann [6d\]: oh b is pro^^ i take back all my comments on b's moves
Kotonoha [4d\]: LOL
Tirno [4d\]: lol
Kotonoha [4d\]: Sand , you troll very much 
Sandmann [6d\]: I'm sorry
Muttley [2k\]: Never apologise, Sandmann
rsun [6d\]: you should've noticed when I replied at move 42 ;)
LinuxGooo [15k\]: hi, Justin
]
;B[qj]C[Sandmann [6d\]: sorry
Kotonoha [4d\]: No need to sorry, sometimes mistakes make you look lovely 
]
;W[fo]
;B[eo]
;W[gq]C[Muttley [2k\]: black's moves score -7 on the Muttster proemulator assessment tool
rsun [6d\]: no problem at all, no one's blaming you :)
]
;B[gr]
;W[er]C[Sandmann [6d\]: from now on I will assume b is seeing more stuff than me when I don't understand his plans
Muttley [2k\]: :) good idea :)
]
;B[fr]
;W[eq]C[Muttley [2k\]: but seriously, don't beat yourself up about it
Sandmann [6d\]: yes sir
Kotonoha [4d\]: seems 7d are not so strong to you but 2p is another creature =) 
zhou901108 [3d\]: j4
Muttley [2k\]: for all you know, b might be sitting there thinking "man, that move stinks"
Sandmann [6d\]: idk about american 7ds
rsun [6d\]: of course, he can beat 7d in even games with a decent chance
Callaghan [9k\]: or "I had too many drinks last night"
Callaghan [9k\]: XD
Kotonoha [4d\]: g6 ? 
Sandmann [6d\]: i once played an amerian 7d and it felt like i could beat him at 2 handicap
Kotonoha [4d\]: the 4 stones looks not so strong...
ccsco [1k\]: is G2 weak or is G3 weak? Or both? Or neither?
Kotonoha [4d\]: must thinking not answer this..
Kotonoha [4d\]: well not that side
ccsco [1k\]: j4?
Kotonoha [4d\]: can't e4 ....
Chirp [5d\]: was that at the go congress last year sandmann?
Kotonoha [4d\]: must be very shame for a pro 
rusty [2k\]: g 6?
]
;B[kq]C[marcris [1d\]: ?
Sandmann [6d\]: woah
zhou901108 [3d\]: fancy
Kotonoha [4d\]: sort of using the 4 stones' weak position 
Muttley [2k\]: nose struck me as a typical off the wall play
rusty [2k\]: sabaki 
Muttley [2k\]: bless you
egf3d: this is a mess
Kotonoha [4d\]: lol egf 
rsun [6d\]: the best response to tenuki is tenuki
Kotonoha [4d\]: are you 3d 
egf3d: yes why
Kotonoha [4d\]: why l3 is a mess 
rsun [6d\]: this != l3
Kotonoha [4d\]: it sound cool 
Muttley [2k\]: rsun, if by "tenuki" you mean "kill it merciless" then yes, tenuki by all means
egf3d: because the replies to it that i see end up in complicated variations
Chirp [5d\]: e4 seems like a reasonable answer
egf3d: only if its good enough :)
Muttley [2k\]: e4 and b is happy?
]
;W[kr]C[Muttley [2k\]: w has two cuts, no need to play either
]
;B[jr]C[rsun [6d\]: spoiler alert: b settles this group and wins
egf3d: mutt, i think e4 is not for the cut but for making sure g4 is strong with libs
Verse [2k\]: e4 seems kind of gote
Kotonoha [4d\]: play e4 and the surrounding b stones look light
]
;W[jq]
;B[kp]
;W[ir]C[tuerda [1d\]: wow!
Muttley [2k\]: e4 and b can connect anyway?
Kotonoha [4d\]: white want to look the 4 stones as strength ! 
tuerda [1d\]: I did not expect w would play this way
Sandmann [6d\]: both players are very brave
rusty [2k\]: trade coming?
rsun [6d\]: looks like my prediction is becoming true
egf3d: mutt yes but then he ends up split and heavy with w sente
Kotonoha [4d\]: want to cut with e6 even cut ! 
Muttley [2k\]: push up now?
Muttley [2k\]: yeah, that is a danger
Muttley [2k\]: depends how hardcore b wants to be
Muttley [2k\]: he's a pro, so he probably doesn't
rsun [6d\]: b can do anything now
Kotonoha [4d\]: bully right bottom to ensure right side?
Thou [5d\]: j3 only move
Muttley [2k\]: why not just H3?
Muttley [2k\]: w is in damezumari anyway
egf3d: no
rsun [6d\]: w gives b many options => sabaki success
Kotonoha [4d\]: why not just m2 
egf3d: not damezumari
Kotonoha [4d\]: lol 
tuerda [1d\]: m2 would be a pretty crazy trade kotonoha
Muttley [2k\]: j2 stones always run out of libs eventually
Kotonoha [4d\]: j3 making the surrounding w stones lib look tight
egf3d: i dont think m2 is good enough, but it looks like one of the better options
Kotonoha [4d\]: I am kidding with m2 lol 
Kotonoha [4d\]: j3 making surrounding w looks tight ! 
Muttley [2k\]: I like the little clump of H2 stones, and I want to capture g4
Muttley [2k\]: that's all I ask
]
;B[jp]C[Kotonoha [4d\]: hmm
Kotonoha [4d\]: looks like ready for m2
]
;W[js]C[Muttley [2k\]: pros understand nothing about kibitzing.
rsun [6d\]: b takes m2 and leaves aji
]
;B[iq]
;W[jr]C[zhou901108 [3d\]: g6
]
;B[gn]C[egf3d: b offered m2, w refused it
rsun [6d\]: w didn't get anything
Kotonoha [4d\]: oh oh
Chirp [5d\]: l2 ends in complete failure
Chirp [5d\]: w would have been better off not responding
tuerda [1d\]: J4 now?
Tirno [4d\]: amazing result for b
rsun [6d\]: w got k2, which he filled
Muttley [2k\]: has b got away without playing H3?
Kotonoha [4d\]: pro could just play them with experience 
]
;W[io]C[Kotonoha [4d\]: no need to read 
ptitlou [2d\]: k6 ?
zhou901108 [3d\]: j4
rsun [6d\]: w spent 5 moves at k2 area, b got 4 stones above
tuerda [1d\]: huh?
rsun [6d\]: that is big failure for w
tuerda [1d\]: I do not understand J5 at all
Sandmann [6d\]: how about h5
bug2 [3d\]: h5
]
;B[ho]C[rsun [6d\]: fix all cuts in sente
bug2 [3d\]: only move
Thou [5d\]: w should have j4
Thou [5d\]: j5 is crap
Muttley [2k\]: b gets left with cutting points all the same
Chirp [5d\]: w should have played elsewhere instead of throwing good stone after bad
rsun [6d\]: Move 65 rsun [6d\]: spoiler alert: b settles this group and wins
Kotonoha [4d\]: what is throwing good stone after bad? increase the cost in the losing invest ? 
ptitlou [2d\]: result after j4 was like j5 Thou 
]
;W[cf]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: Rsun, where are all the bots?
bug2 [3d\]: too early to say win
Thou [5d\]: no it wouldn't
rsun [6d\]: bot authors know everyone watching/attending congress
ptitlou [2d\]: well j4 h4 j5 k6 ?
zhou901108 [3d\]: o14 i think is good here
Sandmann [6d\]: j4 h3 j5 h5 i think
Kotonoha [4d\]: Is Sandmann the strongest admin ever ? 
Sandmann [6d\]: no
rsun [6d\]: no
Kotonoha [4d\]: Or BigDoug is? 
Roooa: A 6d admin?  Wow.
rsun [6d\]: bigdoug is weak
]
;B[ed]
;W[di]C[bug2 [3d\]: 6d is strong enought
Kotonoha [4d\]: he can't judge a game? 
Roooa: hmm to me it seems like w is struggling
USGO1 [-\]: b *almost* plays d10 immediately
]
;B[dj]C[USGO1 [-\]: then does
USGO1 [-\]: :)
Muttley [2k\]: As the only Albanian 9p, I'm clearly the strongest admin.  Ever.
]
;W[hp]
;B[ip]
;W[hn]
;B[hq]C[Roooa: Big Doug has his own line of beer, though.
]
;W[ho]C[rsun [6d\]: w has collapsed
Muttley [2k\]: adventure time, b has cutting points
Sandmann [6d\]: woah
]
;B[em]C[rusty [2k\]: finding place to resign?
Roooa: hmm w can still e4
Tirno [4d\]: w way behind now, would probably consider resigning if it wasn't a tournament
Sandmann [6d\]: well, w cant in otherwise so i guess this is reasonable
ptitlou [2d\]: well w has to e4 to be consistent
Sandmann [6d\]: win*
Kotonoha [4d\]: wow
]
;W[hm]C[Kotonoha [4d\]: w push out the heavy thing so early ^ ^
rsun [6d\]: w is trying to connect d11 to h7
Muttley [2k\]: w clearly studies the games of twoeye with exceptional clarity
Muttley [2k\]: fight, fight fight
Sandmann [6d\]: that's what she said
Thou [5d\]: dude..
Kotonoha [4d\]: or just kidnap to do so as to win 
]
;B[km]C[Kotonoha [4d\]: well key stone must be save no whether it is danger or not
Kotonoha [4d\]: it is the machine of war 
Sandmann [6d\]: m4 is sente, right?
rsun [6d\]: yes
bug2 [3d\]: why b dont play h7 instead of e7
Sandmann [6d\]: thx
rsun [6d\]: unless w sacrifices ;)
rusty [2k\]: one of white's groups will die, no way to save them both 
ptitlou [2d\]: sorry how is m4 sente ?
Kotonoha [4d\]: maybe h7 helping w go home even it looks comfortable at first 
Muttley [2k\]: dying isn't so bad
Thou [5d\]: both what?
Muttley [2k\]: its dying without trading that's bad
rsun [6d\]: b has o2
rusty [2k\]: c 14 group or h 7 group 
ptitlou [2d\]: ho yeah great thanks rsun
Kotonoha [4d\]: he want to run with w 
Thou [5d\]: ah i didn't notice c14
rsun [6d\]: w's plan is to connect d11 to h7, cut e4, then swallow b's group
Thou [5d\]: when did it get there?
]
;W[el]C[Kotonoha [4d\]: hard to say that rusty 
Roooa: that's a clever plan, rsun.
egf3d: w aim at e6 ko ?
bug2 [3d\]: i think b now regrat not doing h7 
Kotonoha [4d\]: is he
rsun [6d\]: you bet
Kotonoha [4d\]: he don't even wanna e4 
Kotonoha [4d\]: he looks this is his 2 wings and h7 is big pig 
bug2 [3d\]: e4 have not point
Kotonoha [4d\]: I know
Kotonoha [4d\]: so b is looking as very light and L7 is already jumping out
Kotonoha [4d\]: how he regret not h7 
]
;B[ei]
;W[fl]
;B[lp]C[Kotonoha [4d\]: e11 gain enough
]
;W[qr]C[Kotonoha [4d\]: I don't see how he regret now
Kotonoha [4d\]: teach me :)
USGO1 [-\]: w plays r2 without looking away from the center of the board.
rsun [6d\]: if b e4, w still not connected
Justin9202 [8k\]:  lol 
LiXiaolu [5d\]: is mark lee of asian descent? if not he must be one of the strongest american amercans
Kotonoha [4d\]: seems h7 then b need to spend 2 moves to connect on left side as h7 rush w to blcok his outlet in exist L7 have
morth89 [1d\]: is there any link to results?
USGO1 [-\]: http://www.usgo.org/tournaments/crosstab/band-matrix/170
morth89 [1d\]: thx
rusty [2k\]: No spoilers, please
edlee [1k\]: LiXiao, earlier in this SGF, someone gave some background info on Mark.
]
;B[ep]C[LiXiaolu [5d\]: oh cool, i will view offline and find it
indianayk [5d\]: mark lee is a Korean
]
;W[ik]C[Kotonoha [4d\]: what is LiXiaolu in Han letter?
]
;B[eg]C[Tirno [4d\]: mentioned earlier: Mark Lee is 18, korean, studying under Myungwan Kim and will be going to school in the US
Austin101 [2k\]: b so ahead now
Austin101 [2k\]: unless w captures bottom
bug2 [3d\]: lixiaolu in krean?
ptitlou [2d\]: n7 ?
LiXiaolu [5d\]: seems strong, A group insei in Korea is pretty formidable
]
;W[ll]C[Kotonoha [4d\]: pro love forcing people to kill 
]
;B[co]
;W[bo]C[Kotonoha [4d\]: there is a go verb big group even Honinbo hard to kill 
laBella [1k\]: 1 gote eye
egf3d: sente eye
bug2 [3d\]: sente 
Kotonoha [4d\]: Here is the situation Big group even Honinbo can't kill it ! 
laBella [1k\]: N6 now
morth89 [1d\]: and then Kato kill Takemia's half board dragon :-)
bug2 [3d\]: kkkk
Kotonoha [4d\]: Honinbo don't know how to kill a big group 
]
;B[lm]C[rockyfive [1d\]: It's complicated, It always is :P
Kotonoha [4d\]: Takemiya is not a good slogi master 
]
;W[ml]C[Rukis [2d\]: hes probably never heard of slogi
Kotonoha [4d\]: 1 more sente eye needed ! 
]
;B[mm]C[Kotonoha [4d\]: or weakenning w 's block ! ! 
]
;W[om]C[ptitlou [2d\]: if b dies he will probably eat the last stones of his bowl
Kotonoha [4d\]: counter is the offensive defend
ChemBoy613 [-\]: I looked through this game and something about it feels odd to me.... like there isn't a good flow.... idk why
indianayk [5d\]: b has a sente eye inthe left d5
Kotonoha [4d\]: what chem 
rusty [2k\]: b has reserve eye at h 1?
Kotonoha [4d\]: the 2p seems dominate the game 
Kotonoha [4d\]: why there is no good flow 
egf3d: rusty no
ChemBoy613 [-\]: like he is trying to throw W off his game and it's not working
Wenhao [1k\]: b can go c4 and d6
Kotonoha [4d\]: don't get it Chem . . . 
Kotonoha [4d\]: left top get so much 
rsun [6d\]: what's not working?
Roooa: go W!
ChemBoy613 [-\]: oh yeah top left is huge but this bottom group is in trouble
Roooa: I believe in your tesuji skills
Kotonoha [4d\]: left top look even more than what w have all in the board
egf3d: b can live there in gote, at least
ptitlou [2d\]: a b tenuki would be an insult ?
Kotonoha [4d\]: must have tenuki this and making life 
ChemBoy613 [-\]: yeah i don't think B can asnwer at q8
Kotonoha [4d\]: q8 is so small 
Kotonoha [4d\]: s4 is getting atari 
Kotonoha [4d\]: so safe 
Kotonoha [4d\]: the r10 is so useful too
Kotonoha [4d\]: in defend 
ChemBoy613 [-\]: exactly
Kotonoha [4d\]: the defend is already so perfect
wsn [4k\]: what is b's facial expression?  still looking relaxed
Kotonoha [4d\]: sleeping 
Kotonoha [4d\]: not even relaxed ....sleeping
rsun [6d\]: drooling
]
;B[pl]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: :O
Wenhao [1k\]: what?
rusty [2k\]: wow
mutant [4k\]: lol
LiXiaolu [5d\]: trollolol
Rukis [2d\]: black is no where near dead
Kotonoha [4d\]: very confident in make life 
toffee [3d\]: w is behind if b lives easily.
Kotonoha [4d\]: it seem 
LiXiaolu [5d\]: looks hard to kill to me
mutant [4k\]: slap in w face
tuerda [1d\]: w is behind if b lives with difficulty
ChemBoy613 [-\]: <--- honest surprise
Kotonoha [4d\]: saying ok, is your center can block me? 
LiXiaolu [5d\]: w still got cutting points
rsun [6d\]: this moves means, nanny nanny boo boo
ChemBoy613 [-\]: lol @ r sun
ptitlou [2d\]: w can answer to c4 at f1 and steal the second eye right ?
history [2d\]: B even saved C4 and D6.\\
tuerda [1d\]: well w, time to kill
egf3d: who is rsun?
rabfulton [2k\]: just d6 and tell b to resign!
Rukis [2d\]: h1 is not an eye ptitlou
LiXiaolu [5d\]: ptit no eye at f1 anyway
ChemBoy613 [-\]: i will admit that i am too weak to read out life to play this move
Rukis [2d\]: i would play it
LiXiaolu [5d\]: n5 is only kill attempt move
ptitlou [2d\]: oh yeah sorry
ChemBoy613 [-\]: i would have played o7 like an idiot
LiXiaolu [5d\]: but i would bet on b
Rukis [2d\]: well even then n5 o7 black is out
wsn [4k\]: and you know he is 2p
history [2d\]: B is a pro.. So, he must read that it is already alive.
learngofan [?\]: very nice to put the players names in the title :)
LiXiaolu [5d\]: not scared o l6?
]
;W[of]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: pros, and players that were almost pros and playing serious, feel completely different when you play against them
rockyfive [1d\]: k5 is an eye and d6 other eye so it's alive
ChemBoy613 [-\]: the energy is totally different
Kotonoha [4d\]: we are baby to them 
ChemBoy613 [-\]: like, if you play china 5d or china 6d it is like night and day
Kotonoha [4d\]: We are baby to them 
okiol [-\]: but neither 5d or 6d is pro?
LiXiaolu [5d\]: you play china 5d and china 5d it can be like night and day :)
Kotonoha [4d\]: They are lions to us 
ChemBoy613 [-\]: that's true Li
]
;B[rh]C[Justin9202 [8k\]: well if they are lions than im the spartan that slays the lions ^_^ 
LiXiaolu [5d\]: 5d china is 3d-7d kgs depending on where you are
Rukis [2d\]: sure gl with that one
LiXiaolu [5d\]: maybe 8d
]
;W[he]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: i played this chinese 6d, who missed pro by like one slot or two, and she was this 70lb little girl and omg it totally felt different
Justin9202 [8k\]:  I feel optimisim is a key part of winning 
Kotonoha [4d\]: Have to sleep 
rockyfive [1d\]: then they are terminator to us
ChemBoy613 [-\]: erm 80-90lbk, very small girl
Kotonoha [4d\]: Tell me who won ! Bye ! 
rsun [6d\]: w playing random?
ChemBoy613 [-\]: my ex wife was china 5d, and i played a few of them, but china 6d is like... scary.
Rukis [2d\]: well tehy do turn pro at a low age
okiol [-\]: oh, chemboy, do you mean that amas who almost became pro is at the same level as pros?
kirbywarp [?\]: How is the time?
ChemBoy613 [-\]: yes
okiol [-\]: but completely different from normal amas
ChemBoy613 [-\]: exaxctly
ChemBoy613 [-\]: yes
okiol [-\]: ah, i see
LiXiaolu [5d\]: china 6d is like the first real rank, there are only around 200-300 6d's
ChemBoy613 [-\]: it is different from very strong ama
]
;B[ff]C[USGO1 [-\]: ziyang plays f14 with some extra vim
]
;W[hc]
;B[ic]C[Rukis [2d\]: BAM
okiol [-\]: *clicking stones*
rsun [6d\]: 6d means you won some national tournament
edlee [1k\]: extra vim is nice 
LiXiaolu [5d\]: or finished in first 5 positions away from qualifying in pro test
odbira [3k\]: USGO1 - thanks for color comments!
rsun [6d\]: i use vim-latex
ChemBoy613 [-\]: i played Lin Lu, and she played some move that like made 20 points, stole my eyes, made me in bad shape, in sente, and i just wanted to cry :S
ChemBoy613 [-\]: so like, pro here
Justin9202 [8k\]:  I have yet to play a pro face to face or just for fun on kgs
]
;W[bj]C[egf3d: well don, what you describe sounds very situational to me
ChemBoy613 [-\]: b must be insanely strong
LiXiaolu [5d\]: kill it!
ChemBoy613 [-\]: just my experince, that's all
rsun [6d\]: I played 9p twice, I know what you're talking about :)
Rukis [2d\]: did you ask if they held back?
ChemBoy613 [-\]: i played some guy who was former head of chiense go association?  died like 2-3 years ago?
egf3d: only twice? oO
ChemBoy613 [-\]: i felt like a baby
Roooa: I want w to win
rsun [6d\]: I can tell
LiXiaolu [5d\]: chen zude?
Justin9202 [8k\]:  You see I dont really consider a pro better than anyone else, sure they got more experience, but they are still players 
USGO1 [-\]: w gets up for a walk and b sits back in his chair
ChemBoy613 [-\]: yeah, i played a game with im
ChemBoy613 [-\]: him
LiXiaolu [5d\]: nice
Justin9202 [8k\]:  they enjoy the game as much as any normal player and make mistakes too 
USGO1 [-\]: after touching B10 and looking out the window.
Roooa: yes.  Michael Phelps is only a swimmer.
wsn [4k\]: wow!
rsun [6d\]: but not as many mistakes
rockyfive [1d\]: Yeah, but just a totally different level
okiol [-\]: having a pro who felt out of shape, not really focusing, uninterestedly beating me with 9h twice in a row while using like 1/10 of my time was a reality check...
Sampi [3d\]: this game is full of insanely good moves
egf3d: http://kgsbash.org/quote/?49
egf3d: :)
Rukis [2d\]: the only mistake a pro regrets is self atari: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt1FvPxmmfE
okiol [-\]: out of shape like in haven't practised properly and being on travell in europe and out of touch with pro scene for a couple of years
Fishbulb [3k\]: that may be true, justin, but what they know due to that experience you're undervaluing means what is a mistake to them will probably not even register with you
Fishbulb [3k\]: or me.  that aside.  i do agree with your statement wholeheartedly
LiXiaolu [5d\]: or me :)
]
;B[bi]C[Fishbulb [3k\]: :)
USGO1 [-\]: w hovers -- twice -- over the upper left before considering
]
;W[ib]
;B[jb]
;W[id]
;B[jc]
;W[je]C[LiXiaolu [5d\]: if b10 worked, that makes me douby f14
ChemBoy613 [-\]: just, there is this reak gap between strong ama and pro stregneth.  I am not strong enough to see the difference but you can truly feel it
okiol [-\]: justin, the pros just being normal players is what makes it so amazing... on one hand they're normal people who are afraid of silly stuff and are insecure about certain stuff in their private life, and they miss stuff and mess up all the time on the go board... still they have this demanding precense at the board, and that is what makes it so impressive
USGO1 [-\]: and switching to J18
LiXiaolu [5d\]: b seems inefficient now
]
;B[ke]
;W[jf]
;B[kf]
;W[jg]C[vagabundo [2d\]: (insert wall of text)
ChemBoy613 [-\]: so this game... no strong amas would play this game, you can just tell
USGO1 [-\]: there's a crowd around andy liu's game
peakoil [1d\]: none of us know what's going to happen to b m4 group
LiXiaolu [5d\]: go andy ^_^
ChemBoy613 [-\]: aparently both players think m4 is alive
Fishbulb [3k\]: wipe this one off and show us that one
]
;B[cl]
;W[gb]C[USGO1 [-\]: USGO5
okiol [-\]: no need to read the board position when you can read the players... ofcourse m4 is alive ^^
Fishbulb [3k\]: ... joke
Roooa: Go W!
ChemBoy613 [-\]: g18 is really nice
rockyfive [1d\]: it's alive, it has two eyes in gote or can scape with o8 i think
rsun [6d\]: w has too many dame
okiol [-\]: the real question is
okiol [-\]: what can w do to threaten to kill it?
rsun [6d\]: playing twice in a row
okiol [-\]: is p8 enough? if yes: p9?
corners [-\]: m17 is a serious threat
rockyfive [1d\]: if white plays for example o7, then black can live with d6 sente eye and k5
okiol [-\]: c7 is enough, right?
Fishbulb [3k\]: m10 looks fun 
rockyfive [1d\]: if white takes away an eye, black o8 
egf3d: o8 o7 l9 m10 
ChemBoy613 [-\]: still. this move is hard to ingore
egf3d: not clear
]
;B[gd]
;W[hd]C[Fishbulb [3k\]: oh, definitely
ChemBoy613 [-\]: looks like white can play d17
Fishbulb [3k\]: i was letting my ADD do the talking there
Grunman [12k\]: cannot b take m3 stones?
okiol [-\]: no
ChemBoy613 [-\]: no grunman, o3 is dead
USGO1 [-\]: ~45 m each player
wsn [4k\]: who is ahead?
]
;B[ph]C[madastyle [9k\]: Is the game in absolute time?
rsun [6d\]: no
ChemBoy613 [-\]: honest answer, i don't know who is leading
wsn [4k\]: no mad
madastyle [9k\]: so theres still byo left
fuzzie [3k\]: p6 o6 07 p5 08
okiol [-\]: alternatives>rules>rules, USGO1 is nice like that, he fills in the actual time settings
ChemBoy613 [-\]: i think chinese tournaments are absolute time, but these are AGA rules
rabfulton [2k\]: b is usually 1 move ahead
USGO1 [-\]: :D glad you noticed okiol.  yes.  the rules are accurate
rsun [6d\]: b+15
peakoil [1d\]: how does b get 2 eyes after w d6?
edlee [1k\]: CB, it depends on the tourney. 
Rukis [2d\]: usgo1 is dennis recording games this year?
USGO1 [-\]: he is our room master.
Roooa: b has a superior position, like an artillery piece on top of a hill
Rukis [2d\]: i see
ChemBoy613 [-\]: hey ed!  i playedi n a big city tournament where there was no clock, then i played in a formal tournament where it was 90 min per player
ChemBoy613 [-\]: well, 45 min i think
ChemBoy613 [-\]: i forget
edlee [1k\]: yes, CB, but pro tourneys have byoyomi
edlee [1k\]: so it depends
ChemBoy613 [-\]: oh yes, i wasn't including pro tournaments
Justin9202 [8k\]:  but can you technically call an open tournament a pro tournamen t? 
]
;W[mb]C[Justin9202 [8k\]: cause yes it has pros but it also has ameteures
edlee [1k\]: no justin. that's different
ChemBoy613 [-\]: i played in strongest open tournament in china and pros weren't allowed, but we did have some china 8d and 7d
okiol [-\]: proteurnament
]
;B[kg]
;W[kh]C[rsun [6d\]: I thought 7d was the max
]
;B[lh]C[LiXiaolu [5d\]: some china 8d. there are only like 3 :p
]
;W[li]
;B[mh]C[egf3d: 8d is current champ
rsun [6d\]: oic
egf3d: 7d former champ
ChemBoy613 [-\]: 8d won wourld ama
ChemBoy613 [-\]: world ama
ChemBoy613 [-\]: 7d won china ama
ChemBoy613 [-\]: there are like 2 8ds and 3 7ds i believe
LiXiaolu [5d\]: but most 8d who won world ama are now pro
okiol [-\]: so sometimes there will be no 8d?
]
;W[mf]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: the guy who was the 8d was over age limit to go pro
ChemBoy613 [-\]: but he was strong as a pro
okiol [-\]: silly rules
peakoil [1d\]: what is the age limit to become pro?
rsun [6d\]: 18
ChemBoy613 [-\]: in china? for boys? i think it's 14 now
edlee [1k\]: pea, depends on the country
ChemBoy613 [-\]: they lowered it
ChemBoy613 [-\]: it was 18
peakoil [1d\]: what? really?
okiol [-\]: 14??? i thought it was 30
mutant [4k\]: that's aweful
LiXiaolu [5d\]: 25
ChemBoy613 [-\]: no it was 18 for boys and 20 for girls last i checked
peakoil [1d\]: that makes no sense. 
LiXiaolu [5d\]: it's 25 100%
madastyle [9k\]: There should be no limits for age
Roooa: I agree.
ChemBoy613 [-\]: well, there were a lot of strong go players who just couldn't pass pro test, and yet had no other skills to contribute to society
Roooa: If Grandma Rosie wants to become pro, let her!
Justin9202 [8k\]: well not many 40 year olds are pros i believe
LiXiaolu [5d\]: i think the limit is there to get people to carry on with their life
ChemBoy613 [-\]: yeah exactly
rockyfive [1d\]: well, our brains have limits so it's normal the age limit
madastyle [9k\]: Go can be life
ChemBoy613 [-\]: and then all the strong pros out there are turning pro at like, 12
Herod [-\]: Depends whether you're talking about lower limit or upper
rsun [6d\]: 14 is impossible, what's your source?
Justin9202 [8k\]:  Oh rocky i wouldnt say that
Rukis [2d\]: Justin say that to go seigen 
Justin9202 [8k\]:  the only limit is yourself
peakoil [1d\]: corporate sponsors do not like old fogies
LiXiaolu [5d\]: rsun - it's 25
ChemBoy613 [-\]: i forgot rsun, i might get it wrong
Roooa: At Zombocom, anything is possible indeed.
Justin9202 [8k\]:  GO seigen became a pro at a young age
LiXiaolu [5d\]: let me go find a link to the rules for this years test..
rsun [6d\]: yes I saw 25 somewhere
Justin9202 [8k\]:  there arnt many that play regular ly i mean 
mutant [4k\]: totally different social system
ChemBoy613 [-\]: it was several years ago and i have gotten no sleep and i gmiht have been drunk at the time
egf3d: western attitude :x
okiol [-\]: maybe 14 is to become insei?
ChemBoy613 [-\]: idk japanese rules
rockyfive [1d\]: Justin yeah, but you don't chose yourself's body and brain :) you are your body and brain 
Roooa: can w still win?
Rukis [2d\]: japanes its 25
Rukis [2d\]: korean i think its around the same
ChemBoy613 [-\]: i remember my ex took pro test at 20 and she said it was her last pro test
Justin9202 [8k\]: yes and what you precieve or believe if you beleive in it strong nough often it is true
Justin9202 [8k\]:  also the only limits you have are what you say are your limits
LiXiaolu [5d\]: here is a link to the rules for this year's test http://sports.sohu.com/20140508/n399307311.shtml
peakoil [1d\]: I figured it out. h1 is sente for black because of m2 later.
egf3d: dude this is real life, not the american dream
okiol [-\]: maybe there is a limit to the amount, CB, or it was just the last for her because she didn't want to try anymore if fail
notevil [2k\]: ya not really justin..
LiXiaolu [5d\]: note the section titled U25男子组
okiol [-\]: easy to misunderstand
USGO1 [-\]: b thinking hard here, sizing up the whole board
rockyfive [1d\]: Justin you can think you can go through a wall till you break your head on it
marcris [1d\]: after d6 black lower dragon is dead
rockyfive [1d\]: then you realize it is imposible
Rukis [2d\]: you can go through a wall
Rukis [2d\]: just break it down
ChemBoy613 [-\]: yeah it's different there
Justin9202 [8k\]: I can go through a wall, but that doesnt mean i use my head
Justin9202 [8k\]:  ^_^ 
ChemBoy613 [-\]: must have changed
Justin9202 [8k\]:  or bash it with my head
peakoil [1d\]: b h1 sente for life. this is what we have all been missing.
rsun [6d\]: f14 might have been too slack in retrospect
Justin9202 [8k\]:  i would be creative or grab a sledge hammer
egf3d: h1 is not sente
ChemBoy613 [-\]: yeah honestly i do not know how to answer n14
peakoil [1d\]: after h1, black cah m2
Justin9202 [8k\]:  black has to connect 
peakoil [1d\]: m2 then squeeze
egf3d: m2 n2 
egf3d: huh
LiXiaolu [5d\]: here is a list of all the 6,7,8d's in China as of 2012. really very few 7,8d http://dywqw.com/show.asp?id=126
peakoil [1d\]: m2 n2 m1
Justin9202 [8k\]:  otherwise he has a  hard fitht to live 
rockyfive [1d\]: yeah, but when you go through the wall there is no wall xD
]
;B[ia]C[egf3d: squeeze useless
egf3d: b ends in atari
Rukis [2d\]: if there is a hole in the wall thats going through a wall
]
;W[hb]C[peakoil [1d\]: ok right. so then how can b live here?
Rukis [2d\]: by connection
rockyfive [1d\]: that's going through a hole
egf3d: with an eye in the m7 area
peakoil [1d\]: wht if w d6?
Justin9202 [8k\]: simple  connect yes 
peakoil [1d\]: that's only 1 eye
Burton [6k\]: n 13 for b?
Justin9202 [8k\]:  he also has aji at c4 
egf3d: dont ask me, im not the player
Justin9202 [8k\]:  and d2
Rukis [2d\]: black is just alive at f2
Rukis [2d\]: if white trys ti stop an eye black can cut at o7
corners [-\]: there's not really any aji at c4 and d2 besides making the eye with d6 Justin
USGO1 [-\]: b has 5 minutes left, perhaps?  not sure if that was my clock
peakoil [1d\]: look, we all know b is alive because both players are assuming that, but none of know how!
USGO1 [-\]: it was indeed
USGO1 [-\]: w has 40m, b has 5m
Justin9202 [8k\]:  if black plays c4
Rukis [2d\]: i do..
Rotfuchs [4k\]: ya, it looks dead to me, or at least unsettled
Justin9202 [8k\]: he gets a free eye there
ChemBoy613 [-\]: what peakoil said
Justin9202 [8k\]:  or he kills and gets an eye
ChemBoy613 [-\]: i would have defended, but i am weak
corners [-\]: actually, ignoring it doesn't necessarily mean it's alive, just that it's hard to kill
Rotfuchs [4k\]: is h1 sente? whats the followup if f1
peakoil [1d\]: 07 08
egf3d: it is not sente...
corners [-\]: and trying to kill and failing would be a big problem
Rukis [2d\]: its alive..
peakoil [1d\]: 07 does not escape for b
Rukis [2d\]: read
]
;B[lg]C[Rukis [2d\]: it does peakoil
Justin9202 [8k\]: You dont have to have sente to win a game
peakoil [1d\]: you tell us how Rukis
Justin9202 [8k\]:  sente is only there if your opponent answeres
corners [-\]: m13 so painful :(
Justin9202 [8k\]:  cause if he doesnt answer was it really sente?
wsn [4k\]: l16?
]
;W[oh]C[sentra [1k\]: why b p15 not work?
]
;B[pi]C[Rotfuchs [4k\]: l16 can be laddered
egf3d: sentra, not sure but i think because b is short of libs
marcris [1d\]: w -d6 b-o7 w o8 b- p7 w-p8
Rotfuchs [4k\]: rukis, so b alive by connection, not locally?
LiXiaolu [5d\]: i think b is very confident this game, he plays so solid
peakoil [1d\]: right marcris!
cooloff [4d\]: d6
LiXiaolu [5d\]: w shape is stretching everywhere
rsun [6d\]: b already won 50 moves ago
sentra [1k\]: what about the bottom b group?
Justin9202 [8k\]: dont assume things like that rsun 
Justin9202 [8k\]: the game si far from over
peakoil [1d\]: nobody knows sentra
madastyle [9k\]: Wish I could talk to the players now...
peakoil [1d\]: come on white! Play d6!
egf3d: justin is very confident in himself :p
Justin9202 [8k\]:  Id rather have confidence than lack of confidence
Justin9202 [8k\]:  I just feel anything is possible in go 
]
;W[dn]C[egf3d: im not going to discuss this
marcris [1d\]: well done 
LiXiaolu [5d\]: yay he loves kgs
edlee [1k\]: your wishes granted  :)
Justin9202 [8k\]:  and that you shouldnnt say some one is garenteed to win till end of game 
cooloff [4d\]: B is in danger---two groups running towards together---classic
peakoil [1d\]: Yay!
rsun [6d\]: game is far from over because b allowed w to break the top
Herod [-\]: I'd rather have skill
Justin9202 [8k\]:  hmm 
USGO1 [-\]: discuss the game only, thanks!!!
Dupaaxe [?\]: Now b bottom group is dead
fuzzie [3k\]: what abaout p6?
corners [-\]:  Justin9202 [8k\]:  cause if he doesnt answer was it really sente? >>> sort of, but not exactly. Absolute sente is something that really must be answered (that threatens to kill, say).
sentra [1k\]: o7
Justin9202 [8k\]: i still think c4 is a good move here
corners [-\]: other sente might not be answered, just means there is a good followup
indianayk [5d\]: your wishes came true, peakoil
corners [-\]: grey area though
fuzzie [3k\]: p6 o7 o6 \\
Justin9202 [8k\]:  nvm i see why c4 doesnt work here
indianayk [5d\]: w decided to hunt for two weak groups
peakoil [1d\]: yes indian! :)
Justin9202 [8k\]:  it might work if white hadnt playe dd6 first maybe
peakoil [1d\]: long overdue move
Rukis [2d\]: btw black is now not alive
rockyfive [1d\]: rsun [6d\]: spoiler alert: b settles this group and wins -> let's see ^^
USGO1 [-\]: b 1 minute remain
sentra [1k\]: b has to o7
USGO1 [-\]: w 38
LiXiaolu [5d\]: o7 does look like the move
Justin9202 [8k\]:  yep o7 seems nice here
corners [-\]: b is in quite a lot of danger here, especially in byo-yomi
fuzzie [3k\]: o7 bad move
chiron [?\]: then n 12 gets cut off
Justin9202 [8k\]:  what about o8?
peakoil [1d\]: 07 08 p6 p8 and it is nothing for b
fuzzie [3k\]: o7 o8
Justin9202 [8k\]: i think o8 might work 
Rukis [2d\]: black wont p6...
rockyfive [1d\]: o7
USGO1 [-\]: b in byo yomi
LiXiaolu [5d\]: o8 o7 almost dead immediately?
]
;B[nl]
;W[nm]C[fuzzie [3k\]: lol
LiXiaolu [5d\]: apparently not :)
peakoil [1d\]: lol
corners [-\]: l9 
fuzzie [3k\]: bad move
Justin9202 [8k\]: ^_^ 
Justin9202 [8k\]:  we shall se 
rsun [6d\]: gotta kill, for the thrill
edlee [1k\]: LiX, nice they reply you so promptly :)
peakoil [1d\]: b might have had 07 08 06
estanall [8k\]: o7 would've worked: o7 o8 o6 p6 n5 p4 m2 o2 h1 f1 j1
fuzzie [3k\]: i thimh the correct move o6
fuzzie [3k\]: *think
cooloff [4d\]: I found this is hopeless for b
LiXiaolu [5d\]: me too :)
USGO1 [-\]: 2 periods
rockyfive [1d\]: hmm maybe white get miai to kill one group
indianayk [5d\]: no matter what the result is, it's exciting.
marcris [1d\]: o6 dosent worked
LiXiaolu [5d\]: k9? mess?
chiron [?\]: i'm getting my money's worth
peakoil [1d\]: i think estanall is right. 07 08 06 p6 n5 was the sequence for b
marcris [1d\]: for black
Dupaaxe [?\]: :) 
USGO1 [-\]: last period
madastyle [9k\]: 2 periods of how much time, USGO?
wsn [4k\]: b is going to eat the remaining stones, right?
corners [-\]: k9 to complicate could be best
LiXiaolu [5d\]: 30secs
rsun [6d\]: make an eye, before you cry
]
;B[kl]C[chiron [?\]: then wave bye bye
LiXiaolu [5d\]: empty triangle ftw
Justin9202 [8k\]: now b has got to read on both player's moves in order to stay ahead 
fuzzie [3k\]: i mean p6 not o6 sry
]
;W[lk]C[fuzzie [3k\]: p6 better move
]
;B[il]
;W[jk]
;B[hl]C[rsun [6d\]: b must regret f14
wurfmaul [1d\]: they are both playing so fast in a matter of life and death?
wsn [4k\]: is b slapping his forehead?
corners [-\]: b is in byo-yomi wurfmaul
]
;W[jl]C[wurfmaul [1d\]: ok corners
peakoil [1d\]: b looks dead
cooloff [4d\]: j7
fuzzie [3k\]: b in trouble
wsn [4k\]: b is gonna timeout
]
;B[dq]
;W[dr]C[cooloff [4d\]: or resign
rsun [6d\]: you can throw your bricks, but b has bag of tricks
wsn [4k\]: so w is not a pro?
LiXiaolu [5d\]: seems only j7
]
;B[im]
;W[jm]
;B[jn]
;W[gm]C[Rotfuchs [4k\]: nice shortage at f7
]
;B[cr]
;W[br]C[wsn [4k\]: j6 g10 
kirbywarp [?\]: time-suji for the win
fuzzie [3k\]: lol
mutant [4k\]: for the not-loss
wsn [4k\]: I though b had a plan!
]
;B[hk]
;W[in]C[LiXiaolu [5d\]: into tilt mode
fuzzie [3k\]: plan to resign
Justin9202 [8k\]: low time helps ruin most go plans ^_^ 
LiXiaolu [5d\]: resign button at the ready
peakoil [1d\]: w needed the m11 stone for this to work
]
;B[jh]C[rsun [6d\]: cannot make an eye? better semeai
corners [-\]: lol
rusty [2k\]: that rhymes 
chiron [?\]: ,many times
]
;W[kk]C[fuzzie [3k\]: mice
fuzzie [3k\]: nice\]
]
;B[hj]
;W[ii]C[wsn [4k\]: over
]
;B[ij]C[abm1210 [2d\]: not yet
]
;W[ji]
;B[ki]
;W[jj]C[cooloff [4d\]: B may kill top w
notevil [2k\]: ya
cooloff [4d\]: but may not be enough
]
;B[ih]
;W[hi]C[wsn [4k\]: not enough
]
;B[gj]C[Rotfuchs [4k\]: l6 connects
LiXiaolu [5d\]: korean insei strong like su-yeung hong!
]
;W[gg]
;B[kn]
;W[gi]C[wsn [4k\]: let me try again - is w a pro?
]
;B[fi]
;W[hg]C[edlee [1k\]: wsn, no.
wsn [4k\]: ohh
Justin9202 [8k\]:  e1  or h1 maybe 
USGO1 [-\]: black has resigned
Justin9202 [8k\]:  intersting 
kirbywarp [?\]: wow
USGO1 [-\]: just his third loss in AGA play.
Justin9202 [8k\]:  They both played an amazing game ^_^
rockyfive [1d\]: poor black
rsun [6d\]: please ask if b regretted F14
Justin9202 [8k\]:  I dont like fighting games usually but this was a good one 
Burton [6k\]: in byomi b will kill the whole center
wsn [4k\]: I really thought b had a plan for the bottom group
chiron [?\]: Justin, give up go then
Dupaaxe [?\]: GG :)
rsun [6d\]: b bottom was fine until w broke the top and got some stones in the center
Justin9202 [8k\]: I never said i dont like them in the sence as they are not fun 
Justin9202 [8k\]:  i just feel that the reading makes my opponents boggled
])
