(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[NZ]SZ[19]KM[8.00]TM[5400]OT[5x60 byo-yomi]
GN[ING Redmond Cup Senior Division - Final Playoff Round 1 - 2008 US Go Congress - Gan Sheng Shi (7d) vs Cherry Shen (6d)]PW[Gan Sheng Shi]PB[Cherry Shen]WR[7d]BR[6d]DT[2008-08-04]EV[ING Redmond Cup]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]US[Calvin Lee]RE[W+3.00]
;B[pd]
;W[dp]
;B[qp]
;W[dd]
;B[oq]
;W[qj]
;B[fc]
;W[qf]
;B[nd]
;W[id]
;B[fe]
;W[cf]
;B[db]
;W[cc]
;B[ib]
;W[rd]
;B[qh]
;W[of]C[teamochi [9k\]: black likes this opening?
]
;B[pi]
;W[qc]
;B[pj]C[usgo14 [-\]: cherry has gotten out of her seat
DeepTuna [2k\]: ???
usgo14 [-\]: Probably a trip to the restroom
usgo14 [-\]: To anyone just joining us, this is the first round of playoffs for the Redmond Cup 
usgo14 [-\]: In preliminary rounds there was a three-way tie between Gan Sheng, Cherry, and Will Zhou, who all had 4-1 records.
]
;W[gd]
;B[fd]
;W[hb]C[usgo14 [-\]: Will will play the winner of this round
]
;B[hc]
;W[ic]
;B[gb]
;W[jb]
;B[ha]C[usgo14 [-\]: Then the loser of this match the loser of that match play each other
usgo14 [-\]: Whoever loses twice is eliminated
usgo14 [-\]: Then the remaining two play for the title
YangX [4d\]: best of 3?
YangX [4d\]: or just 1 game
]
;W[kc]C[usgo14 [-\]: 1 game
usgo14 [-\]: There will be four matches in these playoffs
usgo14 [-\]: Rnd #1  Cherry Shen vs Gansheng Shi                Will Zhou       vs   bye  rnd   #2    Will Zhou   vs  rnd #1 winner   rnd #3   rnd#1 loser   vs  round #2 loser                (loser eliminated)  Rnd #4    rnd#2 winner vs rnd#3 winner
]
;B[ld]C[YangX [4d\]: so these 2 might have 2 play again?
]
;W[mc]C[usgo14 [-\]: If Will loses to both of them, yes
]
;B[md]
;W[nc]C[YangX [4d\]: well.....say cherry wins
YangX [4d\]: and gan loses
YangX [4d\]: cherry plays will and loses
littlenemo [?\]: hi yang, sorry you aren't here this year - Paul 
YangX [4d\]: now cherry and gan both hav 1 loss
YangX [4d\]: and therefore havta play each other again?
YangX [4d\]: ah
YangX [4d\]: hello paul
YangX [4d\]: im rele sad about not being able to b there T_T
littlenemo [?\]: we are having fun here :)
YangX [4d\]: glad to hear that =\]
]
;B[mg]
;W[pc]C[littlenemo [?\]: I was sure I would see you here
YangX [4d\]: in the beginning of the summer, i was pretty sure id b there 2
YangX [4d\]: T_T
littlenemo [?\]: next year my friend, be 7 dan by then okay?
YangX [4d\]: haha, 7d, no way
YangX [4d\]: im gonna go for atl east 9d
YangX [4d\]: at least*
YangX [4d\]: =D
]
;B[fq]
;W[ip]
;B[fo]
;W[dn]C[littlenemo [?\]: haha, okay ^_^
]
;B[kp]
;W[eq]C[YangX [4d\]: i still dont get the pairing thing though -.-'
usgo14 [-\]: its the best way to resolve the 3-way tie. what part is confusing?
YangX [4d\]: is it possible that these 2 play again?
YangX [4d\]: cuz if will beats te winner
usgo14 [-\]: yes, it is
usgo14 [-\]: whoever loses twice is out - thats the underlying premise
YangX [4d\]: ah, ok, thats wat got me confused
YangX [4d\]: thx
]
;B[fr]
;W[in]
;B[fm]
;W[kn]
;B[dl]
;W[cl]
;B[ck]
;W[cm]
;B[cg]
;W[dg]
;B[ch]
;W[bf]
;B[dh]
;W[eg]C[Rucker [1k\]: how many people are in the redmond cup?
YangX [4d\]: well
]
;B[eh]C[YangX [4d\]: there was a qualifier online a while back
]
;W[lq]C[YangX [4d\]: 10 seniors
YangX [4d\]: and 9 juniors
Rucker [1k\]: ok because im looking on the aga website it has like 3 names xD
Rucker [1k\]: and i was like ummm
Rucker [1k\]: thats weird
Rucker [1k\]: is landon doing it this year?
usgo14 [-\]: Landon is too old now
]
;B[lp]
;W[kq]C[usgo14 [-\]: Gan Sheng has 74 minutes of his time left, Cherry has 57
Rucker [1k\]: ahh ok
Rucker [1k\]: cherry is going to win it this year then ^^ 
littlenemo [?\]: this is the finals, that is why so few are listed on the site
littlenemo [?\]: haha, I am rooting for Cherry too
littlenemo [?\]: she was second place last year
]
;B[mq]
;W[jp]C[YangX [4d\]: same =D
]
;B[mp]
;W[rp]C[YangX [4d\]: gan sheng took a won game from me =/
usgo14 [-\]: Gan Sheng is actually relatively unknown; he's from Canada and just got back from training in China
YangX [4d\]: woah, training... =O....
]
;B[qo]
;W[mn]C[littlenemo [?\]: yeah, but cherry was just training in china too ;p
YangX [4d\]: why dont i ever have that happen to me T_T
littlenemo [?\]: hahaha, you have to make it happen
YangX [4d\]: how old is shi gan sheng?
]
;B[cq]C[littlenemo [?\]: your folks do a lot for you though, so you can't complain
YangX [4d\]: true
littlenemo [?\]: I think gansheng is 16 or 17
YangX [4d\]: ic
]
;W[er]
;B[co]C[YangX [4d\]: lol, we need younger finalist, young ppl dont stand a chance XD
littlenemo [?\]: hahaha
dddaaa: Gan is 14.  He was in Guiyang too.
littlenemo [?\]: wow, he looks much older
usgo14 [-\]: YangX, If I remember correctly it was the "young people" who claimed victory at the USWYGC last year in the Senior division
]
;W[fp]C[littlenemo [?\]: indeed, they crushed the older kids
usgo14 [-\]: Even then, wait a few years. There are a ton of really strong kids in the Jr Div
]
;B[do]C[YangX [4d\]: rele?
YangX [4d\]: it was landon wasnt it?
usgo14 [-\]: That was the Redmond
]
;W[cp]C[YangX [4d\]: oo
YangX [4d\]: ur right
YangX [4d\]: =D
YangX [4d\]: ya, hugh and calvin will b coming into the senior groups next yr right?
usgo14 [-\]: I believe so
YangX [4d\]: lol, my hope r getting smaller
YangX [4d\]: hopes os winning*
usgo14 [-\]: Calvin and Hugh were actually the Redmond finalists again this year
usgo14 [-\]: But Calvin couldn't make it to congress
YangX [4d\]: yeah
littlenemo [?\]: they will all be 12 next year
]
;B[eo]C[YangX [4d\]: sigh...they grow up too fast -.-'
YangX [4d\]: keep them for 1 more yr in the junior divison =D
]
;W[bo]
;B[ep]
;W[dq]
;B[gp]
;W[bp]
;B[ro]
;W[ir]
;B[cb]
;W[bb]
;B[lm]
;W[ln]
;B[dc]
;W[cd]
;B[nm]C[dddaaa: what time do they have left?
YangX [4d\]: does anyone know how strong gansheng was before he went to china?
usgo14 [-\]: Cherry has 42 minutes
usgo14 [-\]: I can't see Gan's clock from here
]
;W[oh]C[usgo14 [-\]: Gan sheng has 66 minutes
]
;B[je]
;W[qg]
;B[ph]C[t0Strong4u [-\]: what is the redmond cup
t0Strong4u [-\]: ?
littlenemo [?\]: the most prestigious youth tournament in the US
t0Strong4u [-\]: so these are youth players?
littlenemo [?\]: 14 and 16
]
;W[mf]C[t0Strong4u [-\]: left to right?
littlenemo [?\]: yes
usgo14 [-\]: I think Cherry's still 15
t0Strong4u [-\]: damn....im 15 and im nowhere near them
]
;B[lf]
;W[mh]C[YangX [4d\]: lol...there is hope for me
YangX [4d\]: ~
]
;B[ng]
;W[og]C[t0Strong4u [-\]: how old r u?
]
;B[nh]C[YangX [4d\]: 13
t0Strong4u [-\]: damn
]
;W[oi]C[t0Strong4u [-\]: do you have a go teacher?
t0Strong4u [-\]: oh geez yang
t0Strong4u [-\]: HHAHAHAHHAAHAHHA
t0Strong4u [-\]: i know you
YangX [4d\]: ??
YangX [4d\]: who are you?
]
;B[lh]C[t0Strong4u [-\]: not telling dude
YangX [4d\]: do i know u?
t0Strong4u [-\]: yes
YangX [4d\]: -.-'''
YangX [4d\]: 15.....
t0Strong4u [-\]: =) whererd your 2d account go
YangX [4d\]: hm...
YangX [4d\]: lol
]
;W[nn]C[baltomazta [3k\]: doesnt cherry live in california? I think I've seen her before
YangX [4d\]: haha, frosty is resting
t0Strong4u [-\]: because he so weak right
YangX [4d\]: yep =D
usgo14 [-\]: yes she does, balto
t0Strong4u [-\]: yang....is ricky playikng?
t0Strong4u [-\]: laying**
YangX [4d\]: yes
t0Strong4u [-\]: oo
YangX [4d\]: hes playing feng yun
t0Strong4u [-\]: and jasmine?
YangX [4d\]: ><
t0Strong4u [-\]: ricky playing who?
YangX [4d\]: jaz isnt in the Ing cup
]
;B[om]C[t0Strong4u [-\]: wait ricky....is what
baltomazta [3k\]: I remember seeing some girl called cherry hang out with the high dan players at a party haha, guess that's her
]
;W[on]C[YangX [4d\]: 6d
t0Strong4u [-\]: omg
YangX [4d\]: ?
t0Strong4u [-\]: zhangxia is ricky?
t0Strong4u [-\]: i never knew
t0Strong4u [-\]: hahahah
YangX [4d\]: XDD
usgo14 [-\]: please try and keep comments related to the game or the players :)
t0Strong4u [-\]: sorry, hey yang im going to the feng yun game cu later
t0Strong4u [-\]: sorry usgo
]
;B[pm]
;W[rh]
;B[ri]C[katori15 [5k\]: r10 is a thron
]
;W[sg]
;B[jm]
;W[jn]C[dddaaa: Cherry is beating him again!?
]
;B[fg]
;W[gm]C[Violence [?\]: well, Cherry is quite very strong
]
;B[hm]C[usgo14 [-\]: Cherry has 31 minutes, Gan sheng has 54
]
;W[gn]
;B[hn]
;W[dk]
;B[el]
;W[ho]
;B[gl]
;W[cj]
;B[bk]
;W[bj]C[usgo14 [-\]: Gan Sheng has looked unphased the entire game
]
;B[dj]
;W[ek]
;B[fk]
;W[ej]
;B[fj]
;W[di]
;B[ei]
;W[dj]
;B[cn]
;W[bn]C[littlenemo [?\]: cherry sighed just now
]
;B[jl]
;W[im]
;B[hl]
;W[il]
;B[ik]C[FlySpoon [1k\]: S10
]
;W[ie]
;B[jd]
;W[jc]
;B[if]
;W[rj]C[FlySpoon [1k\]: can players read my comment?
littlenemo [?\]: no
katori15 [5k\]: r10 strikes again
littlenemo [?\]: later they could if they look at it
]
;B[mr]
;W[lr]
;B[ls]
;W[ks]C[FlySpoon [1k\]: W is leading
littlenemo [?\]: 50 min on gansheng's clock
usgo14 [-\]: 16 on Cherry's
]
;B[hq]
;W[ms]
;B[iq]
;W[jq]C[katori15 [5k\]: ● t11 r11 t10 t12 t9 seems best
]
;B[jr]
;W[hp]C[usgo14 [-\]: Cherry shook her head a while after she placed k2
]
;B[hr]
;W[is]
;B[ba]
;W[ab]
;B[nr]C[FlySpoon [1k\]: P10
]
;W[mj]
;B[oj]
;W[ni]
;B[mi]
;W[lj]C[littlenemo [?\]: the President of the Canadian Go Association is watching the game now
FlySpoon [1k\]: say hello to james
littlenemo [?\]: haha, afterwards I will
]
;B[nj]
;W[km]C[FlySpoon [1k\]: go canada go
]
;B[lk]C[FlySpoon [1k\]: still playing
katori15 [5k\]: can we get some reflection on the players?
FlySpoon [1k\]: ?
appleseeds [4k?\]: how much time now?
usgo14 [-\]: Both players seem to have been counting their territorities
usgo14 [-\]: territories*
usgo14 [-\]: performing multiple estimates
katori15 [5k\]: thank you
usgo14 [-\]: Cherry has 5 minutes on her clock, Gan Sheng has 30
]
;W[li]
;B[kk]C[GaretJax [6k\]: this looks fun
]
;W[mh]
;B[lc]C[xliu [5d\]: go Cherry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GaretJax [6k\]: *cheers with xliu since he has no idea who to cheer for*
GaretJax [6k\]: Saw your game by the way, you played well, very tenacious :)
xliu [5d\]: haha thx
]
;W[lb]
;B[mi]C[katori15 [5k\]: ● d7 big enough?
YangX [4d\]: cherry is gonna have time trouble
]
;W[hf]
;B[hg]
;W[mh]
;B[hs]C[GaretJax [6k\]: no way it's big enough.  
]
;W[kl]
;B[jk]
;W[js]
;B[mi]
;W[mk]
;B[ml]
;W[mh]
;B[ko]
;W[jo]
;B[mi]
;W[jf]
;B[ig]
;W[mh]
;B[bi]
;W[kh]
;B[lg]C[cloudy [4d\]: has a lower rank won over a higher ranker today?
cloudy [4d\]: i did not see one yet
usgo14 [-\]: not that i know of
katori15 [5k\]: I say no
cloudy [4d\]: boring :)
]
;W[mi]
;B[aj]C[katori15 [5k\]: oof that looks early what about m13 
ejen016 [6k\]: omg..what was w's last move?
usgo14 [-\]: he filled the ko
slinky [-\]: o.o?
ejen016 [6k\]: so, l12 mistake?
slinky [-\]: whos move?
usgo14 [-\]: whites
aussiemate [7k\]: l11 looks a good place ro cut
usgo14 [-\]: I'm not really allowed to comment on the game
joelw [12k\]: if u dont know where to move, taking a huge gote looks ok to me
]
;W[kf]
;B[kg]
;W[kd]
;B[jg]
;W[ke]
;B[qi]
;W[si]C[usgo14 [-\]: Cherry is in byo-yomi
]
;B[rl]
;W[ql]
;B[qm]
;W[pk]
;B[ok]
;W[rm]
;B[pl]
;W[qk]C[Intake [2d\]: t9
dddaaa: YangX, looks like Gan is taking a won game again.
]
;B[sk]
;W[sj]C[GaretJax [6k\]: taking a won game?
]
;B[bl]
;W[bm]
;B[ji]
;W[nf]
;B[le]
;W[od]
;B[oe]
;W[oc]
;B[ne]
;W[pe]
;B[bg]
;W[ee]
;B[ed]
;W[ef]C[YangX [4d\]: sigh............gan strikes again
]
;B[af]
;W[ae]
;B[ag]
;W[bd]
;B[go]
;W[dm]
;B[he]
;W[hd]
;B[ge]
;W[gc]
;B[hb]
;W[ff]
;B[gf]
;W[al]
;B[ci]
;W[en]
;B[fn]
;W[ki]
;B[pg]
;W[pf]
;B[jh]
;W[ll]C[gogobob [2k\]:  
]
;B[qn]C[katori15 [5k\]: o8 
]
;W[mm]C[joelw [12k\]: looks bad
]
;B[oo]
;W[no]
;B[op]
;W[nl]
;B[ol]
;W[sh]
;B[rn]
;W[rk]
;B[sm]
;W[sl]C[GaretJax [6k\]: considering how big that ko looked, cherry did a good job of minimizing it
]
;B[es]
;W[ds]
;B[fs]
;W[rm]
;B[sn]
;W[kj]
;B[jj]
;W[rl]
;B[np]
;W[pn]
;B[po]
;W[ns]
;B[os]
;W[ls]C[joelw [12k\]: cherry in freeze the puck stage
GaretJax [6k\]: freeze th puck?
]
;B[nk]C[McCrusty [1k\]: canadian lingo
joelw [12k\]: hockey analogy, meaning dont let them score
Over9k [5k\]: k19 
katori15 [5k\]: national sport of canada is lacross
GaretJax [6k\]: heh
]
;W[ja]
;B[ml]C[Over9k [5k\]: f18 
]
;W[gg]C[ejen016 [6k\]: new zealand's rule could cause jigo
YangX [4d\]: cherry makes a comeback?
usgo14 [-\]: its ing rules
GaretJax [6k\]: what's that?
usgo14 [-\]: new zealand's the closest we have to it
Over9k [5k\]: tie
]
;B[fh]
;W[nl]
;B[ak]C[GaretJax [6k\]: I know jigo
]
;W[am]
;B[ml]C[FlySpoon [1k\]: national sport of canada is curling
GaretJax [6k\]: I don't know the nz rules
]
;W[or]
;B[pr]
;W[nl]C[Over9k [5k\]: like chinese
ejen016 [6k\]: komi 8
Blockdude [3k\]: nz rules is
katori15 [5k\]: d15 
]
;B[de]C[GaretJax [6k\]: so I dont' know how it could cause jigo
]
;W[df]
;B[ml]C[Blockdude [3k\]: you get to choose where to put ur handicap
]
;W[ps]C[Blockdude [3k\]: and you can suicide groups
]
;B[qs]C[ejen016 [6k\]: and fill the dame if i was not mistaken
]
;W[nl]C[Over9k [5k\]: yep
Blockdude [3k\]: oh yeah
]
;B[ad]C[Blockdude [3k\]: nz counts dame
GaretJax [6k\]: I thought you can suicide in ing too?
]
;W[be]
;B[ml]C[Over9k [5k\]: basically scoring is stones and territory
]
;W[fb]
;B[eb]
;W[nl]
;B[dr]
;W[cr]
;B[ml]
;W[fa]
;B[ea]C[GaretJax [6k\]: how woudl jigo get caused?
]
;W[nl]C[ejen016 [6k\]: like if we play q1 ?? 
]
;B[cs]
;W[bs]C[ejen016 [6k\]: suicide?
]
;B[ml]C[GaretJax [6k\]: ejen, yes
Over9k [5k\]: no
katori15 [5k\]: j19 
]
;W[ia]
;B[ga]C[GaretJax [6k\]: but it's useful if you can make dead shape inside
]
;W[nl]C[Over9k [5k\]: yea
Over9k [5k\]: but only as a ko threat
thaguy56 [6k\]: b17
Over9k [5k\]: you can't play q1
copacetik [1k\]: I always thought the suicide rule was no good
Johnny5 [7k\]: why would you want to get jigo anyway?
GaretJax [6k\]: better'n losing
Over9k [5k\]: suicide gives you ko threat
Blockdude [3k\]: cuz its cool >.>
Capsule [3d\]: white wins by a little bit
katori15 [5k\]: b17 good eye
Capsule [3d\]: maybe 3 points
setake [10k\]: is this ko even big?
slinky [-\]: yup
setake [10k\]: why?
joelw [12k\]: it's a close game
Capsule [3d\]: ko doesn't determine the game.
Blockdude [3k\]: at this close game it is very big
slinky [-\]: its close enough for it :3
setake [10k\]: because its so close?
slinky [-\]: yes!
Capsule [3d\]: W+2-3
]
;B[ca]C[azaman [2k\]: I thought b was up by a couple....
setake [10k\]: yeah but a ko is only worth 1 point no?
joelw [12k\]: SE thinks b is up by 7
usgo14 [-\]: dont trust score estimate
]
;W[ml]C[Over9k [5k\]: 1.5
ejen016 [6k\]: no 0.5
usgo14 [-\]: when it uses nz rules its usually off
setake [10k\]: cause you get sente?
]
;B[mo]C[azaman [2k\]: se is not even worth looking at (exept for amusement)
setake [10k\]: why n5?
]
;W[lo]
;B[aa]C[copacetik [1k\]: it is very amusing sometimes
Johnny5 [7k\]: SE = Simply Entertainment
katori15 [5k\]: Ing counts stones
HamatoYosh [-\]: dame matters in Ing rules
setake [10k\]: oh
setake [10k\]: weird
]
;W[me]C[NeverAtari [4k?\]: not really
Over9k [5k\]: it's like chinese rules
]
;B[em]C[setake [10k\]: wow this is some weird playing
setake [10k\]: so the more stones you have the better?
NeverAtari [4k?\]: senseis library
Over9k [5k\]: and the more territory
ejen016 [6k\]: so hows the result??
HamatoYosh [-\]: the game is played the same as japanese rules, basically, but you just fill in the dame at the end
cloudy [4d\]: it is not weird at all, just different perspects
usgo14 [-\]: counting now
setake [10k\]: so how does it count points?
katori15 [5k\]: counting stone splits the board even so B+W=361
Panda123 [4k\]: r these pro dan's?
Capsule [3d\]: no.
Panda123 [4k\]: ty
azaman [2k\]: I see w 80 b 78
katori15 [5k\]: waaahhaa pro's are dan for the most part
cloudy [4d\]: pro dan's will be 7p, 6p vs 7d, 6d here
setake [10k\]: oh i get the score... whover has more stones on the board wins? cause they ate the most?
Over9k [5k\]: they have to fill int he territorry too
ejen016 [6k\]: b won by agehama
usgo14 [-\]: W won
ejen016 [6k\]: by how?
usgo14 [-\]: by 3
katori15 [5k\]: wow
Blockdude [3k\]: so all higher ranks won today
azaman [2k\]: hmm wonder what I fogot to count
])
