(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[AGA]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[5400]OT[5x40 byo-yomi]
GN[2nd AGA Pro Quals - Gan Jianing(w) vs Bill Lin(b)]PW[Jianing Gan]PB[Bill Lin]WR[7d]BR[7d]DT[2014-01-05]EV[2nd AGA Professional Qualification Tournament]RO[5A]PC[The Hotel Normandie, Los Angeles, CA]US[Andrew Jackson]C[USGO1 [-\]: Hello and welcome back to the coverage of the 2nd AGA Pro Qualification Tournament!
USGO1 [-\]: I'm Horselover Fat, your game recorder this evening.
USGO1 [-\]: Tonight featutes the one game knockout between Gan Jianing & Bill Lin, fighting for the right to play Calvin Sun in the finals tomorrow!
RobertT [-\]: Nice name
USGO1 [-\]: We are ten minutes out from game time and the room is still mostly empty here at the Hotel Normandie
USGO1 [-\]: In keeping with the TD's wishes, I will be unable to view the chat until the game has ended, so please direct late questions to this text or to the tournament website: http://www.usgo.org/aga-professional-results-2013
USGO1 [-\]: The tournament's double elimination format is a little funny; to answer the most frequent question, the winner of this game will play Calvin as if their previous games counted
nachodude [-\]: Thank you Horselover.
USGO1 [-\]: so, if Bill wins, since he played calvin once and lost, they'll have a set to 2 with the score 1-0 in Calvin's favor
USGO1 [-\]: if Jianing wins, they'll have a set to 3 with the score 2-1 in Calvin's favor.
USGO1 [-\]: To answer other frequently asked questions, there is no video feed
USGO1 [-\]: and the players are both 17 years old.
Muttley [2k\]: I'm fairly sure Horselover Fat doesn't play go
pasta [6k\]: Horselover?
Muttley [2k\]: I remember him from the West Indies Individual Poker Primaries
Muttley [2k\]: He beat me with 5 aces
Muttley [2k\]: still don't know how he did it
embeck [4k\]: Muttley...that may say more about you than him :-)
Muttley [2k\]: :)
USGO1 [-\]: 3 minutes to game time!  Andy Okun is sitting in Jianing's spot and Bill is happy to play him instead
Muttley [2k\]: Tell Andy to open on tengen.
USGO1 [-\]: Andy says "no such luck pal!" & makes way for Gan
Muttley [2k\]: Good luck both :)
USGO1 [-\]: Ok, the players are here and i think we're nearly ready
Muttley [2k\]: shame there's no video feed, USGO, please try to get one next time :)
USGO1 [-\]: Alas, the scenic & historic Hotel Normandie has not yet renovated it's wifi connection to allow sufficient uplink
Muttley [2k\]: (or rather, the AGA)
herissondu [4d\]: wow so wierd that tournament
Muttley [2k\]: fair enough
USGO1 [-\]: we'll do our best!
Muttley [2k\]: Go Bill!  (I'm biased)
USGO1 [-\]: Ok!  I think we're ready to begin!
USGO1 [-\]: Bill, older by two months, makes the rice ball
pasta [6k\]: bil bil bil bil!
USGO1 [-\]: jianing guesses odd
USGO1 [-\]: it is not.
USGO1 [-\]: He will take white
xDragon [?\]: thanks for scribing horselover
Muttley [2k\]: Bill takes black, 7.5 komi?
xDragon [?\]: yes
Muttley [2k\]: tx
USGO1 [-\]: Hold the phone!  The hotel staff has decided to start vacuuming right outside the door
USGO1 [-\]: the TD gives them the option to wait
herissondu [4d\]: I bet on w
USGO1 [-\]: so... standby!
herissondu [4d\]: an easy win
Muttley [2k\]: Is it a Dyson?
RobertT [-\]: we must have confirmation on vaccume model
USGO1 [-\]: I'll check...
USGO1 [-\]: Dirt devil
xDragon [?\]: cheap hotel
USGO1 [-\]: false!
USGO1 [-\]: Very fancy hotel.
Schnapps [2k\]: :D
Muttley [2k\]: Not honte.
xDragon [?\]: with cheap vacuums
USGO1 [-\]: Incidentally, both players are canadian
Muttley [2k\]: Never mind, I once played in Ueno where the go club manager swept up the prisoners from the floor with a dustpan and brush
USGO1 [-\]: Ok!  We're done vacuuming and we're off
]RE[B+7.50]
;B[qd]C[iwin [2k\]: go bill
]
;W[dp]
;B[dc]C[Jermelle [-\]: go bill
]
;W[pp]
;B[cn]
;W[cl]C[Bellicose [9k?\]: Is there a favorite to win this round?
Schnapps [2k\]: Well, I guess that Gan is because he's comming from the winner bracket
]
;B[cf]
;W[ci]C[wkeric [15k\]: hi
]
;B[kc]C[giraudoux [4d\]: is calvin playing?
Hotascurry [5k\]: KOUURAKI
Schnapps [2k\]: no
wkeric [15k\]: no
KouUraki [25k\]: :D
Schnapps [2k\]: Calvin's only gonna play in finals
]
;W[qj]C[Schnapps [2k\]: This is semi-final
hyperpape: Bill is stronger
hume [4k\]: 1st finalist is already decided, isnt it?
]
;B[nq]C[Schnapps [2k\]: yes
Schnapps [2k\]: it's Calvin
hume [4k\]: thx
liptos [4k\]: bill lin, kgs represent!
Schnapps [2k\]: We got the US represent, now we'll see who'S gonna represent canada :P
]
;W[pn]C[hyperpape: Bill was my favorite before the tournament
awesome [4k\]: Gan Jianing anagram for Aging Ninja
iwin [2k\]: your name is correct
]
;B[jp]
;W[fq]
;B[qh]C[liptos [4k\]: ahh, let there be peace
MyBigPENS: m3
giraudoux [4d\]: calvin has a big head
nachodude [-\]: oh
prime [-\]: is it whoever wins this game moves on, or are there going to be multiple games between these two?
MaLa [3d\]: bo3
Schnapps [2k\]: The one that wins goes to finals
prime [-\]: ok thx
BobaTea [?\]: did calvin win the best of 3?
MaLa [3d\]: yes
Schnapps [2k\]: Yes he did
MaLa [3d\]: if you didnt watch game 3
Schnapps [2k\]: That's why Gan's playing today
MaLa [3d\]: do it
meuns [1d\]: who is white? 
liptos [4k\]: gan kianing 7d
MyBigPENS: I'm white
liptos [4k\]: *jianing
meuns [1d\]: thx
]
;W[kp]C[Schnapps [2k\]: wow
Fredda [-\]: It's a best of 3 between Bill and Gan?
MyBigPENS: l4 why
danzi [-\]: lol
Schnapps [2k\]: Gan sure has some interesting moves sometimes
MaLa [3d\]: yes fredda
liptos [4k\]: no, only one game
awesome [4k\]: http://www.usgo.org/news/2010/05/13-year-old-jianing-gan-6d-to-play-myungwan-kim-9p-in-spot1-finals-sunday-59-at-1p/
MaLa [3d\]: hm?
Fredda [-\]: I heard only one game
danzi [-\]: l3 m3
MaLa [3d\]: oh?
Schnapps [2k\]: only one game indeed
MaLa [3d\]: so whole LB is bo1?
Fredda [-\]: i think USGO said it in last demo
MaLa [3d\]: thats sad
buu [3d\]: surprised
Schnapps [2k\]: USGO said it at the start of the game
Fredda [-\]: L4 is quite aggressive
profan [-\]: fight!!! c6 having bad time
MyBigPENS: l3 m3 m4 l5 k3 n4 m2 m5 n3 
danzi [-\]: c3 abandon c6 no big deal
MyBigPENS: standard 1d sequence
danzi [-\]: lol
profan [-\]: the idead of l4 is to kill c3 and hurt c6 at the same time 
danzi [-\]: hmmm
profan [-\]: or same strategy on o3 
Fredda [-\]: First feeling is K3 or K5
profan [-\]: i like k5 now to make room for corners
yunoo: they didnt meet yet, so its a single game
]
;B[kq]C[profan [-\]: lol ^^
]
;W[lq]
;B[lp]
;W[ko]C[MyBigPENS: the standard 1d sequence
liptos [4k\]: mybig called it
faustu [3k\]: boring :(
Fredda [-\]: b can m2 and consider ko
BOThater36 [4d\]: no kidding :-) myB
Fredda [-\]: but lowerleft migt become too tick
]
;B[lr]C[MyBigPENS: with a twist
liptos [4k\]: mybig is wronggg
]
;W[jq]C[profan [-\]: seems too good for black
]
;B[mq]
;W[kr]C[Fredda [-\]: l2 j3 m3 q3 l3 r3 is the standard seq
liptos [4k\]: oh boy
MyBigPENS: r3 fill?
Fredda [-\]: black can also consider other kothreats as R5 or R3
BOThater36 [4d\]: dont think B wants ko
liptos [4k\]: k2 lets do eet
Fredda [-\]: here ko is a must
liptos [4k\]: ko will entertain us more
shapsie [9k\]: white can still use a lot of thickness now on the lower left, but I still think black comes away much better locally (obviously from the contact play).  I'd choose black here since there's still aji in the corner.
Betwixt [5d\]: must indeed
MyBigPENS: if no ko b is very heavy
Schnapps [2k\]: b backing off is waaaay too shy
USGO3 [-\]: http://www.usgo.org/aga-professional-results-2013
Fredda [-\]: with F2 there white might consider answering some kothreats and connect at K2 in response to B j3
Fredda [-\]: will be complicated..
Betwixt [5d\]: j3 more common for the ko
]
;B[lq]C[Betwixt [5d\]: so it might require a bit of reading with f3 so close
Schnapps [2k\]: wow!
liptos [4k\]: ah boringgg
]
;W[iq]C[Bloar: I suddenly realize where billin's user name comes from.
BOThater36 [4d\]: dont surprise me
]
;B[pr]C[Fredda [-\]: this is unexpected..
danzi [-\]: no kothreats though
Schnapps [2k\]: Where does billin come from?
danzi [-\]: lol
Schnapps [2k\]: (his name)
Sheriffi [-\]: canada
giraudoux [4d\]: home
danzi [-\]: oh
Betwixt [5d\]: b had enough threats
prime [-\]: i wonder where.... *looks at blacks name*
Argus [3k?\]: vancouver area
Betwixt [5d\]: this is just way too good for w
danzi [-\]: doesnt seem bad for blaCK
Schnapps [2k\]: Seems to me like w got too much
herissondu [4d\]: r3 seems needed
Betwixt [5d\]: in sente..
prime [-\]: yeah, i like white here
Schnapps [2k\]: However, b still has a huge framework at top
danzi [-\]: THERS R8 LATER
herissondu [4d\]: or f17
herissondu [4d\]: or p17
Bloar: yes but it is thin
awesome [4k\]: b can still invade other corner?
danzi [-\]: no cap
prime [-\]: maybe black is aiming at r8
Bloar: awesome - b can c3
reprisal [2d\]: yes, c3 still lives
awesome [4k\]: right
reprisal [2d\]: or c4
Schnapps [2k\]: c4 runs
Fredda [-\]: locally black want to C4 usually not C3
BOThater36 [4d\]: white will play top, tenuki here
danzi [-\]: b e6, j5 and the stones would be a concern
Schnapps [2k\]: so I'm not sure it's the best answer
liptos [4k\]: r3?
Fredda [-\]: anyway lowerright result is acceptable to B
yunoo: d6?
shapsie [9k\]: invading the corner seems early, though big.  woudln't whites moyo just increase if black took c3?  especially with the l5 stones
danzi [-\]: d6 for white?
Fredda [-\]: locally white want to C4 in LW but seems a bit slow..
prime [-\]: d6 is quite big.
BOThater36 [4d\]: if pro can give us real time commentary, that would be nice..
reprisal [2d\]: yeah the timing on lower left is not easy
BOThater36 [4d\]: hmm, Jiang just come and leave
profan [-\]: after r3 is black alive?
]
;W[od]C[Betwixt [5d\]: p16 now
Betwixt [5d\]: ><
Muttley [2k\]: p16 5d move.
danzi [-\]: white wats to attack first i guess
hyperpape: I can't seem to copy-paste, but there's a ranka interview with Bill. 
Jermelle [-\]: lol, I never learned how to punish this move
BOThater36 [4d\]: Muttley :-)
shapsie [9k\]: reprisal: my thought as a player would be make a weak group as a way to get my stones into the center, THEN invade c3
midorisuke [3d\]: q14
Jermelle [-\]: :O show ,me bill
]
;B[pf]C[danzi [-\]: huh
profan [-\]: stop saying 5d 4d 3d move... non sense
awesome [4k\]: using mac hyperpape?
prime [-\]: seems overconcentrated
]
;W[qc]C[hyperpape: Nah, web-start. Lost my old account. 
]
;B[rc]C[danzi [-\]: black wants to get hitck
midorisuke [3d\]: it's thick
Muttley [2k\]: profan [-\] comment.
danzi [-\]: thick
]
;W[of]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: seems white gets all he wants
midorisuke [3d\]: p15
midorisuke [3d\]: do it
prime [-\]: tengen
prime [-\]: jk
shapsie [9k\]: O
danzi [-\]: dunno wats white doing here? 
]
;B[pe]C[awesome [4k\]: seems he is making moyo
hikarupro [9k\]: he misclicked p15
]
;W[oe]C[Betwixt [5d\]: seems to me p14 should go before r17 here
shapsie [9k\]: I'm confused, white played mostly low since the first two moves, but now is going for influence?  hard for me to understand the switch
profan [-\]: w wants to sacrifice r17 to keep l17 weak and to invade top left
]
;B[pc]C[JesusTeAma [3k\]: yes, he misclicked on a real board 
reprisal [2d\]: d4 q6 q4 l5 l4 are all high stones
danzi [-\]: u call thta moyo?
reprisal [2d\]: w global position is not low at all
yunoo: usually u need some balance betwenn low and influence
danzi [-\]: e6 is too big
Bloar: w nicely balanced
faustu [3k\]: b has the low pos
reprisal [2d\]: especially the l5 l4 part, that's a strong influence position
awesome [4k\]: yes
BOThater36 [4d\]: Is Kathy still teaching bill?
shapsie [9k\]: all: i see that, I'm saying it seems like a reversal frmo the opening strategy.
]
;W[ke]C[shapsie [9k\]: which I find interesting.
prime [-\]: l15 is nice
Muttley [2k\]: what is the strategy as you see it?   I'm curious and serous question :)
danzi [-\]: :)
]
;B[id]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: This kind of opening is favor to white, this is big komi game
Bloar: l15 looks textbook
]
;W[pg]
;B[qg]C[shapsie [9k\]: well, white is clearly going for huge moyo (despite how fast black played the opening).  I know those games tend to lead to a lot of mid game fighting when I play.
]
;W[oc]C[Betwixt [5d\]: w good
Muttley [2k\]: I'll stick my neck out and say the handling of C6 is key to the position, since that will determine a large portion of white points and whether b has a middlegame burden
BOThater36 [4d\]: white will win
Muttley [2k\]: sounds fair, thank you shapsie :)
faustu [3k\]: this is almost sente
liptos [4k\]: hmm j14?
JesusTeAma [3k\]: this is a bo3 ?
xDragon [?\]: nope, single game
asdfggfdsa: will bill win?
xDragon [?\]: winner faces calvin sun in the finals
danzi [-\]: dunno
Fredda [-\]: white r18 works now
selpahi [1d\]: How do these players hold up to Andy?
danzi [-\]: andy i spro
Muttley [2k\]: Bill beats andy in blitz
danzi [-\]: is pro
selpahi [1d\]: I know.
Muttley [2k\]: he's very strong
Muttley [2k\]: the other players in the tournament are also very, very strong :)
hyperpape: Andy had a few bad tournaments. 
xDragon [?\]: before the tournament began i thought bill and calvin were the favorites
Muttley [2k\]: I would just J14 here
danzi [-\]: how ocme zi wang didnt participate
mppl: d8 
danzi [-\]: come*
asdfggfdsa: probably all of them know who is best...
yunoo: q11?
]
;B[cp]C[Betwixt [5d\]: i'd play k14 here
]
;W[cq]
;B[bq]C[awesome [4k\]: nice for b to run through w area
Fredda [-\]: most likely black will take corner and w outside
]
;W[co]
;B[bp]
;W[do]
;B[dq]
;W[cr]
;B[dr]C[danzi [-\]: white only has moyo 
]
;W[br]
;B[ar]C[RobertT [-\]: correct asdf, all the players knew that Daniel Gourdeau was the strongst and they just got lucky
Muttley [2k\]: ok, c6 area getting sorted out without b having a burden per se in the middlegame
]
;W[bo]
;B[cs]
;W[in]C[reprisal [2d\]: burden now is his next invasion group
USGO1 [-\]: bill nods
BOThater36 [4d\]: thick move
reprisal [2d\]: which is probably necessary since w is getting big
Muttley [2k\]: b will erase
liptos [4k\]: j14
prime [-\]: bill nods!?
profan [-\]: funny game ,i bet black +10
Lsugyen [6d\]: nope
Muttley [2k\]: [-\] comment.
danzi [-\]: bill nods
Cobrinha [5k\]: b 4 corners??
faustu [3k\]: and w will get top left
Lsugyen [6d\]: hard to reduce this thickness
]
;B[if]C[Muttley [2k\]: I wouldn't even try to put a number on this game
Muttley [2k\]: its too fluid for me
Lsugyen [6d\]: mev too
asdfasdfe: 2,5 corner black has
Muttley [2k\]: hey, I said J14
liptos [4k\]: called it booya
Muttley [2k\]: 2k move.
asdfasdfe: white can save r17 stones
danzi [-\]: lol
Cobrinha [5k\]: also counting in different rules seems difficult to me :)
Bloar: weak 2k :P
BOThater36 [4d\]: decision time for w
prime [-\]: hah
Muttley [2k\]: very
prime [-\]: blacks got this
]
;W[qb]
;B[rb]C[asdfasdfe: see?
danzi [-\]: i guess black invade+attack
]
;W[pd]
;B[re]C[awesome [4k\]: seems very hard game for w
danzi [-\]: why are they playing so fast
Muttley [2k\]: I like black, for sure
T4L0N [1d\]: B seems easily ahead
danzi [-\]: easy to handle too
T4L0N [1d\]: Billlin for the win. :3
faustu [3k\]: ??
reprisal [2d\]: cash is so overvalued
liptos [4k\]: after all, its just pieces of paper
domi999 [1k\]: j12 
profan [-\]: r2 now loos big
T4L0N [1d\]: True...unless its more than the moyo can get
awesome [4k\]: j11
Bloar: Twitter agrees, reprisal.
xDragon [?\]: bill and calvin faced in round 2, its bills only loss so far
shapsie [9k\]: yes, but investing in the market is risky.
gloooomph [1d\]: b has a giant top left in case his cash turns out to be small
asdfasdfe: f17 crazy but anything else will be now to soft on black
BOThater36 [4d\]: how many new pro will come out this tournament?
Muttley [2k\]: 2
xDragon [?\]: 1
RobertT [-\]: 1
reprisal [2d\]: there can be only one
profan [-\]: p10 or r2 ?
T4L0N [1d\]: Calvin is super strong
Muttley [2k\]: not 2?
RobertT [-\]: 1 this year
Demon [3d\]: just 1 this year
xDragon [?\]: no, just 1 this time
Muttley [2k\]: oh sorry
Muttley [2k\]: thank you ;0
T4L0N [1d\]: Poor mis-informed muttley. ;)
T4L0N [1d\]: (I thought it was 2 as well)
T4L0N [1d\]: xD
xDragon [?\]: but 2nd and 3rd will get auto entry into the next pro qualification. so bill, calvin and gan have at least that
Muttley [2k\]: the moon is made of green cheese and tengen is a forced win, ftr.
BlackSmurf [1d\]: oh so did i
RobertT [-\]: this years is 1/2 the size. 8 qualifiers and 1 pro
nuubcakes [-\]: are there many AGA pro?
Muttley [2k\]: ah right
Muttley [2k\]: 2 atm
MaLa [3d\]: soon there are 3
RobertT [-\]: there are currently 2 about to be 3
faustu [3k\]: w get ocean and C17 aji
BOThater36 [4d\]: white is thinking how to invade top left
Bloar: there are already 2 pros?
liptos [4k\]: indeed
MaLa [3d\]: so 2 more years and NA can start at nongshimcup :D
Muttley [2k\]: I would F12 as white here
T4L0N [1d\]: What are the players times at?
awesome [4k\]: top left is a little ocean for b too
danzi [-\]: andy and gan shenshi
Muttley [2k\]: you can still invade after marking out the moyo
marcellus [10k?\]: how much $ ?
xDragon [?\]: winner of this tournament will get $1500 along with pro status
prime [-\]: i think white should go moyo here, not invade
]
;W[ih]C[danzi [-\]: 2 peos?
danzi [-\]: or 1
danzi [-\]: pro
Demon [3d\]: 1
Muttley [2k\]: like I said, F12
MaLa [3d\]: there are 2, plus one more here
danzi [-\]: i 
Demon [3d\]: ^
danzi [-\]: oh
ThiGar [4k\]: According to the full rules (http://www.usgo.org/files/pdf/2013-APQF-Rules_and_Regulations.pdf), if Bill wins, there will be 3 final games. If Jianing wins, 2 final games.
BOThater36 [4d\]: comment on J12?
Roosta [1k\]: f12 seems aimless
liptos [4k\]: hmm w makes a bigger ocean
xDragon [?\]: whoever wins this tournament becomes the 3rd aga pro
faustu [3k\]: expected
T4L0N [1d\]: Hey Demon! :D
Muttley [2k\]: J12 is saying "I'm behind, prove it"
domi999 [1k\]: r8 ?
Demon [3d\]: hi T4L0N
MaLa [3d\]: bill lost to sun as well
danzi [-\]: only one per tournament?
Muttley [2k\]: schizo move
xDragon [?\]: billlin is on kgs
USSRMan [3d\]: is gan a pro?
Demon [3d\]: no...
MaLa [3d\]: sure a pro trying to become pro again
Bloar: j12 seems good builds and reduces same time
xDragon [?\]: why would a pro be in a pro qualification tournament...
danzi [-\]: gan shenshi yes
Muttley [2k\]: no, the point is no pros in the tourney because it is a pro qualifier :0
MaLa [3d\]: reincarnation of pros
Demon [3d\]: gansheng shi and andy liu are the 2 aga pros right now
xDragon [?\]: they get super pro
xDragon [?\]: ?
reprisal [2d\]: but if you qualify twice you get a prestige rank
RobertT [-\]: shi gansheng is pro
prime [-\]: when will an AGA pro go to 2p?
asdfggfdsa: i justt saw a 7p for a moment 
Detroit [?\]: when they actually enter tournaments...
RobertT [-\]: when they actually play vs other pros
ThiGar [4k\]: after a qualification tourney
prime [-\]: ah i see
yunoo: tomorrow
Muttley [2k\]: all the same, J12 is very nice because any black attempt to live in the centre will be subject to a serious assault
USSRMan [3d\]: game looks good for black
T4L0N [1d\]: They've played exibition matches
prime [-\]: against other AGA pros or just simply other pros?
xDragon [?\]: mingjiu was in here yes. hes calvin's teacher
T4L0N [1d\]: But not any tourneys, really.
MaLa [3d\]: are those proranks actually accepted by associations beside korea?
MaLa [3d\]: same with EGF pros... are they accepted outside of china?
USSRMan [3d\]: white's moyo too many weak points
Jermelle [-\]: EGF pros?
Detroit [?\]: I don't think so
liptos [4k\]: im stumped, where should b play?
Sheriffi [-\]: certainly, MaLa
yunoo: there are egf pros?
faustu [3k\]: w got J6, cannot invade easily
Demon [3d\]: well they aren't *really* accepted by korea...  ever since the AGA lost every game to Lee Sedol...
Muttley [2k\]: USSRMan, its for fighting, not territory
faustu [3k\]: means w has big potential
]
;B[gg]C[danzi [-\]: k8?
MaLa [3d\]: accepted as in allowed to enter tourneys
Detroit [?\]: they can only enter tournaments that invite aga pros
Jermelle [-\]: there are not EGF prod
RobertT [-\]: currenly only accepted in korea
Jermelle [-\]: *pros
Detroit [?\]: most tournys they can't join
MaLa [3d\]: there will be this yeat
MaLa [3d\]: jermelle
danzi [-\]: l7
Jermelle [-\]: :o when?
MaLa [3d\]: july
hyperpape: Well, most tournaments are not open to begin with (a korean pro can't play in the Meijin). 
Sheriffi [-\]: july
USSRMan [3d\]: c17
Detroit [?\]: they can't join all korean tournys even
Jermelle [-\]: is there something I can read about this xD
Demon [3d\]: they were supposed to be able to join a korean league, but then korea changed their mind didn't they?  do they really allow andy and gansheng in their tournaments?
ThiGar [4k\]: invitation only, I don't think they can earn a pro korean ranking
MaLa [3d\]: w8 a sec
Jermelle [-\]: thanks
xDragon [?\]: gansheng played in korean tournaments
BOThater36 [4d\]: this game is not about fight, they compete who has better sense of territory
hyperpape: I'm not sure how the big international tournaments work for the preliminaries. 
midorisuke [3d\]: worst game NA
MaLa [3d\]: http://www.gostrasbourg.fr/systeme-pro/
Detroit [?\]: yes they invite them to a couple only
MaLa [3d\]: google translate it
]
;W[cc]C[awesome [4k\]: wow
MaLa [3d\]: it tells you the basics 
Jermelle [-\]: lol
faustu [3k\]: if no fighting, wake me up when it's over
Muttley [2k\]: like I said, top left can be invaded
]
;B[cd]C[danzi [-\]: sometimes a game without fighting is interesting too
Muttley [2k\]: danzi, go stand in the corner.
Muttley [2k\]: that's just heresy.
]
;W[dd]C[midorisuke [3d\]: get out
awesome [4k\]: it's a more subtle kind of fight
danzi [-\]: :(
BOThater36 [4d\]: I will not invade until B has stone at G13. I am too chicken
Demon [3d\]: i agree with danzi
Muttley [2k\]: :) ok you win :)
danzi [-\]: :)
xDragon [?\]: games with big fights are boring and ugly
danzi [-\]: meh
midorisuke [3d\]: how does it feel being wrong
midorisuke [3d\]: is it fun
Cobrinha [5k\]: d15?
midorisuke [3d\]: is that why you're so wrong
xDragon [?\]: dont know, ill ask you
]
;B[ec]C[danzi [-\]: what
Muttley [2k\]: Though to be fair, Ishida games are used to treat insomnia in Japan
midorisuke [3d\]: damn
midorisuke [3d\]: that was harsh
MaLa [3d\]: nice exchange for white
awesome [4k\]: lol
MaLa [3d\]: g11 now?
cloudbrows [1k?\]: these are some impressive generalizations going on
globax [3d\]: leave aji and g11
BOThater36 [4d\]: to live B16 then C18
awesome [4k\]: yes g11
MaLa [3d\]: getting that cornertiming right is something im completely unable to
MaLa [3d\]: :(
Muttley [2k\]: Bothater, two words: go te.
RobertT [-\]: MaLa, this is the 3rd time europe has tried starting a pro system. we'll see if it lasts longer than the other atempts 
faustu [3k\]: you can't live in this gote and have b G11
]
;W[gh]C[liptos [4k\]: te isn't a work
BOThater36 [4d\]: go te?
liptos [4k\]: *word
ThiGar [4k\]: First european pro qualifaication tourney (http://www.gostrasbourg.fr/systeme-pro/) is news to me! I wonder if http://www.usgo.org/news/ has covered that.
Muttley [2k\]: :)
Muttley [2k\]: I mean w won't live directly, but I guess you meant that
]
;B[fh]C[MaLa [3d\]: robert it is funded for some time...
reprisal [2d\]: 3rd time is the charm, as they say
reprisal [2d\]: it works for USB devices
MaLa [3d\]: so yeah, no one knows how long it will work... but for now it will
MaLa [3d\]: same with US system
JeansebL [6d?\]: well
]
;W[gi]C[hyperpape: Ahhhhh, this is why I studied french!
Muttley [2k\]: anybody else think N6 is big for white?
]
;B[di]C[Detroit [?\]: There was a list of tournaments somewhere where they can compete but i can't find on usgo
danzi [-\]: f11 was good too i guess
Detroit [?\]: right now
xDragon [?\]: the system has to start somewhere.
JeansebL [6d?\]: the us system is backed by the hanguk kiwon so... it's pretty solid I guess
faustu [3k\]: good move
yunoo: i need english on this side
ThiGar [4k\]: for sure
liptos [4k\]: b must reduce the ocean
MaLa [3d\]: yeah, you should know how hanguk kiwon decides things
midorisuke [3d\]: by playing go
MaLa [3d\]: you were in korea long enough
MaLa [3d\]: ^^
BOThater36 [4d\]: is white a bot?
midorisuke [3d\]: obv
Muttley [2k\]: only during a full moon
JeansebL [6d?\]: I remember seeing them signing papers, so it shouldn't be that bad :p
liptos [4k\]: se doesn't favor b right now :)
DickOne [?\]: 白必须活角
MaLa [3d\]: oh, i remeber them doing many things
JeansebL [6d?\]: :p
danzi [-\]: ?
danzi [-\]: hm
RobertT [-\]: looks like the european pro system is backed by any go association. it is in partnership with a non go chinese culture company.....
RobertT [-\]: isnt*
midorisuke [3d\]: white must live in the corner?
DickOne [?\]: 中腹围多少都没用
danzi [-\]: i guess so
midorisuke [3d\]: doesn't matter how much is enclosed in the center
midorisuke [3d\]: (i'm translating)
danzi [-\]: lol
]
;W[hg]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: where is BigBadWolf?
RobertT [-\]: so I don't even think china recognizes it as a pro association
danzi [-\]: google translater?
midorisuke [3d\]: no, i can read chinese
danzi [-\]: :)
yunoo: no one can read this
BOThater36 [4d\]: H13, nice direct counter
Cobrinha [5k\]: lol
Muttley [2k\]: "White must live in the corner, I think"
liptos [4k\]: h14 block it!
danzi [-\]: abandon moyo
JeansebL [6d?\]: if g14 , then h15 hurts :(
RobertT [-\]: btw this is a better link to the european pro system http://www.britgo.org/files/China.pdf
danzi [-\]: too ddamge corner
awesome [4k\]: yes, h14 seems to work as a block!
midorisuke [3d\]: if you h15
midorisuke [3d\]: er, 14
midorisuke [3d\]: you give up the f12 stone
]
;B[cj]C[danzi [-\]: wow
JeansebL [6d?\]: strong tenuki
faustu [3k\]: good game
tymak [1k\]: Calvin Sun already pro or still has to fight with somebody?
danzi [-\]: white gets little 
Detroit [?\]: fight
prime [-\]: calvin sun fights against the winner of this game
base [-\]: i don't think h13 works that great
awesome [4k\]: x-cut
Demon [3d\]: needs to win one of first 2 games to win
USSRMan [3d\]: easy game for black
base [-\]: there is aji with d17-d16.
rsun [5d\]: is the final best of 3 or 5?
Greytable: More important for B to challenge centre (even obliquey) than maintain moyo
JeansebL [6d?\]: he gets a 2 game lead ?
BOThater36 [4d\]: this area pretty complicate
MaLa [3d\]: 1 game
tymak [1k\]: so from this tournament will be one or two new pros?
JeansebL [6d?\]: ok better...
]
;W[he]C[profan [-\]: black is getting more than w in center
Muttley [2k\]: living in the corner is both big and small for white
liptos [4k\]: one new pro
Demon [3d\]: final is best of 3 with calvin sun starting with 1 win since he'sbeaten both players earlier in the tournament
danzi [-\]: im confused
danzi [-\]: white wasnt the other moyo
danzi [-\]: wants
danzi [-\]: n10 part iguess
herissondu [4d\]: h15 was bad
Muttley [2k\]: danzi, that's good moyo play- felxibility
USSRMan [3d\]: h15 is creative
RobertT [-\]: technically its either a best of 3 with 1 win or a best of 5 with 2 wins 1 loss but same effect
faustu [3k\]: there is no other moyo
danzi [-\]: i dunno
danzi [-\]: lol
herissondu [4d\]: it's too small compares to w's moyo
USSRMan [3d\]: maybe too fancy
danzi [-\]: theres no way
Muttley [2k\]: yes there is
liptos [4k\]: why is it bad?
danzi [-\]: to win
Greytable: White saying I can do flashy tenuki too
danzi [-\]: if dont make another moyo
]
;B[hd]C[danzi [-\]: lol
RobertT [-\]: h15 is bad because he says it is bad
BOThater36 [4d\]: H15 is much much better than H14
gooooo [-\]: so what's the current status in the pro exam? who gets certs depending on these last games?
danzi [-\]: p11
faustu [3k\]: the other side open at R8, P11, N6
faustu [3k\]: not worth 
liptos [4k\]: winner of this game plays calvin sun for pro status
prime [-\]: i bet black wins this.
xDragon [?\]: either way, whoever makes the final against calvin, they will have to win twice, calvin only needs to win once
Demon [3d\]: i think w's got this one
RobertT [-\]: doesn't matter. both players will lose
danzi [-\]: anthing could happed in go
tymak [1k\]: and has Calvin KGS account?
BOThater36 [4d\]: Where is Danny Jiang and Jei Li?
faustu [3k\]: question L15 and the top sequence
Demon [3d\]: JieLi*
BOThater36 [4d\]: thx, Demon :-)
Demon [3d\]: with a space, of course
]
;W[fg]C[gooooo [-\]: how many will get a certificate? one?
Demon [3d\]: my spacebar on this new comp doesn't like to work much...
odnihs [5d\]: danny ko*?
xDragon [?\]: calvin's kgs account is kbag
xDragon [?\]: one
Demon [3d\]: yeah i was thinking of danny ko also.  i don't know of danny jiang lol
BOThater36 [4d\]: odnihs, u r too young to know Danny Jiang
MaLa [3d\]: danny ko didnt make it to the final 8
MaLa [3d\]: he was in exhib league afaik
xDragon [?\]: hes playing in the exhibition league though
Demon [3d\]: ok, but where is darkmage?!?!
xDragon [?\]: zchen?
odnihs [5d\]: oh
Demon [3d\]: yeah
odnihs [5d\]: danny jiang is before my time
Demon [3d\]: or zyoda
xDragon [?\]: hes not a citizen supposedly
xDragon [?\]: so not eligible
Demon [3d\]: or other names
agrog [1d\]: c12
Demon [3d\]: ohthat's lame :(
BOThater36 [4d\]: danny jiang lives on age of IGS
liptos [4k\]: d8?
USSRMan [3d\]: d8 thin
liptos [4k\]: hmm
rsun [5d\]: zen would be proud of white
BOThater36 [4d\]: I think white will prevail
Greytable: Yup black should follow up on c10
liptos [4k\]: c12 is good then
awesome [4k\]: zen would play like n7 or something weird
awesome [4k\]: and win
RobertT [-\]: where is zipei feng?
BOThater36 [4d\]: Zen will play M9 next
Bloar: zen is not nearly as strong as Gan
Vex [3d\]: is this game 1 of the B final?
prime [-\]: whoever wins this will take on Calvin Sun in the finals
USSRMan [3d\]: zen plays really unexpected moves like g10
Vex [3d\]: oh i thought it's best of 3?
]
;B[ce]C[xDragon [?\]: this game determines who comes out of the losers bracket and enter the finals
xDragon [?\]: nope best of 1
JeansebL [6d?\]: lol
Vex [3d\]: ah awesome!
BOThater36 [4d\]: hmm
reprisal [2d\]: !!!
JeansebL [6d?\]: dat move
midorisuke [3d\]: !?
faustu [3k\]: la honte
hegesias [?\]: Nice.
BOThater36 [4d\]: C15 about 15 points
ThiGar [4k\]: Jianing is his first name, right? it's been inverted here on KGS.
JeansebL [6d?\]: a lot more
awesome [4k\]: feels like a small concession
yunoo: plus sente if w g14
midorisuke [3d\]: jianing is his given name
midorisuke [3d\]: this is the chinese order
JeansebL [6d?\]: it fixes al the aji
ThiGar [4k\]: right
USSRMan [3d\]: but now white sente
rsun [5d\]: gotta take the points, before they break your joints
danzi [-\]: gan jia ning
Muttley [2k\]: do you really think this is sente for white?
]
;W[gd]
;B[gc]
;W[fd]
;B[fc]C[ThiGar [4k\]: But look at http://www.usgo.org/aga-professional-results-2013. His name is the other way around
faustu [3k\]: P11 N6 miai
Blondin [5k\]: g14 look necessary
rsun [5d\]: how about r14 r15 q12 
BOThater36 [4d\]: rsun, can you beat zen if yu take b now?
rsun [5d\]: you mean this game?
BOThater36 [4d\]: yes
]
;W[dj]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: D10 nature
rsun [5d\]: feels like I need to throw at N9 or sth
USSRMan [3d\]: black 4 corners
danzi [-\]: white sure can fight
ThiGar [4k\]: SE roots for white
faustu [3k\]: 2 and 2 halves
RobertT [-\]: no he isn't
BOThater36 [4d\]: last 20 moves were simple, white trade live upper left but get inte F16 area
RobertT [-\]: two and two 3/4ths
Muttley [2k\]: b 97, w 99.5
Muttley [2k\]: don't ask me to count again, please
Greytable: :)
rsun [5d\]: w impossible to count
danzi [-\]: too thick
Muttley [2k\]: I don't think so, rsun
BOThater36 [4d\]: yes, all potential
Muttley [2k\]: it means the error margin greater, of course
Greytable: We can count on Muttley
faustu [3k\]: why you give a .5 estimate
Muttley [2k\]: but all the same, you can put boundaries on w area generally
BOThater36 [4d\]: difficult game for white, but doesnt mean w is trailing
Muttley [2k\]: k-o-m-i.
laduradura [8d\]: 70 fix points for black
RobertT [-\]: could give this board postion to 10 different amateur players the same rank and get 10 different answers on the score ranging 10+ points different
laduradura [8d\]: plus some extra in the upper and lower right
Muttley [2k\]: you're right, Robert
BOThater36 [4d\]: now 8d talks
Muttley [2k\]: as I've always said, these estimates are guidelines/data for handling the middlegame
basicpract [-\]: 70 including the stones on the board?
Muttley [2k\]: they aren't "final scores"
Greytable: B is leading on captures
Muttley [2k\]: my point is, its still anyone's game, I think
USSRMan [3d\]: i think game massively favors black
laduradura [8d\]: the main problem is that white has a lot of defects
prime [-\]: yeah
ThiGar [4k\]: AT some point a black move like P12
]
;B[eg]C[laduradura [8d\]: like p11,n6
Muttley [2k\]: I think you're right, it is absolutely a harder game for white
JosEquis [1d\]: anyone's game - could it be MY game? oh i hope so :P
Muttley [2k\]: but, if you keep chipping away at black, psychologically that can be hard to handle
RobertT [-\]: also I hve no idea how you counted into the 90s  lol
laduradura [8d\]: now this is strange
laduradura [8d\]: this atari
BOThater36 [4d\]: take it or extend?
Greytable: I dont like it
Muttley [2k\]: Bistro mathematics
rsun [5d\]: at this moment black has 70 max, can't be 90+
laduradura [8d\]: tenuki more like
laduradura [8d\]: atari at e11
ThiGar [4k\]: bistro meaning fast in russian
basicpract [-\]: well AGA counts stones on the board, right?
USSRMan [3d\]: black was doing these strange tenuki vs calvin sun and lost badly 
Muttley [2k\]: I gave b q18, which is pretty big
BOThater36 [4d\]: wow, I never thought about tenuki
Muttley [2k\]: also R3
danzi [-\]: too complicated
Greytable: It somehow undoes the logi of C10 tenuki
BOThater36 [4d\]: it is 30 point to me :-)
herissondu [4d\]: is this sente?
laduradura [8d\]: thats stone has no strategical meaning
awesome [4k\]: I like e11
herissondu [4d\]: e10 e10
faustu [3k\]: sure ! it's weel known b gets all the big gote in a row !
faustu [3k\]: fair counting
BOThater36 [4d\]: so E11 atari, all seal
laduradura [8d\]: or maybe e10
Muttley [2k\]: faustu :) no problem, at least I'm transparent :0
herissondu [4d\]: well, atari is always sente you know
awesome [4k\]: but b f14 gets 30 pts
USGO1 [-\]: w 57 min left, b 56ish
buu [3d\]: weird
buu [3d\]: why atari
Muttley [2k\]: horselover, if you think w is ahead on the left, you think w is ahead on the board
faustu [3k\]: perfect timing, just what i need to cope with insomnia
tymak [1k\]: preparing for E10?
BOThater36 [4d\]: White think, that is good. I would never think here, so i am wweak
USSRMan [3d\]: funny name, horselover
flipper [4k\]: philip
laduradura [8d\]: if black want to play e10 than this the perfect chance for white to play it
buu [3d\]: i feel e10 is comming up
ThiGar [4k\]: so that's the idea: e13 is a driving tesuji for e10?
Muttley [2k\]: I would take n6 first
RobertT [-\]: I like this board for black. white is too easy to reduce and needs to convert too much of the center into territory
]
;W[ei]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: white wins
]
;B[dh]
;W[dk]C[laduradura [8d\]: hm,my first feeling was correct
herissondu [4d\]: gooood
]
;B[mn]C[Greytable: zen !
Vinicius [1d\]: so.. e13 bad move?
woodrose [1d\]: quickly played
Muttley [2k\]: :(
faustu [3k\]: i wanted P11
buu [3d\]: looks like it
Muttley [2k\]: w could have had this move
faustu [3k\]: why this side
laduradura [8d\]: hard to say it bad
USSRMan [3d\]: i think black wanted to simplify the game with e13
Cos [2k\]: now all white has to do is deal with the massively annoying moyo reductions
Bloar: hmm w looks optimistic still I think
Muttley [2k\]: because if w gets both sides, good luck with that
danzi [-\]: r8
BOThater36 [4d\]: r3 biggest?
]
;W[gf]C[MaLa [3d\]: o.O
Cos [2k\]: o.o
Muttley [2k\]: BotHater do you think r3 is b privilege?
ThiGar [4k\]: p11
BOThater36 [4d\]: white getting thicker and thicker
]
;B[kn]
;W[jo]C[Muttley [2k\]: I don't see how w can justify it other than as an "I am winning" move
]
;B[ql]C[laduradura [8d\]: white clam and collected
faustu [3k\]: ouch
buu [3d\]: agressive
Muttley [2k\]: attacking go instead :)
odnihs [5d\]: i prefer b
awesome [4k\]: looks natural after n6
RobertT [-\]: yep
faustu [3k\]: this is the severe fu
]
;W[pl]C[yunoo: so in the end b got his sente from g14
RobertT [-\]: w too many weaknesses and needs too much of the center
RobertT [-\]: b ahead
Muttley [2k\]: faustus, moderate your language please
Bloar: after n6, what was w's move? sorry missed it
MaLa [3d\]: g14
BOThater36 [4d\]: wow, mutt has double identity
faustu [3k\]: just short for follow up
tymak [1k\]: i still dont understand, why G14 bigger then lower right side
USSRMan [3d\]: i thought he meant severe flu
ThiGar [4k\]: so, the whole e13 sequence was to consildate c14 to allow a quick center initiative?
MaLa [3d\]: during full moon he has a thig
xDragon [?\]: gotta be careful with your acronyms faustu
MaLa [3d\]: third
Muttley [2k\]: mmm, ok :/
xDragon [?\]: you know what that typically means?
awesome [4k\]: I thought of fu as in kung fu
buu [3d\]: ... that is awsome
woodrose [1d\]: i will never understand internet censure
Muttley [2k\]: no worries, you explained and understand, I'm happy with that :0
Cobrinha [5k\]: it's ridiculous imo :) but still...
MaLa [3d\]: doesnt matter muttley
woodrose [1d\]: do you boot someone saying a rude thing in real life?
MaLa [3d\]: you started a riot
Muttley [2k\]: discuss externally to game plase :0
ThiGar [4k\]: Q7
]
;B[pm]C[woodrose [1d\]: q7 
ThiGar [4k\]: :)
USSRMan [3d\]: p7
faustu [3k\]: good
BOThater36 [4d\]: lad, can white handle this easily?
xDragon [?\]: q7
RobertT [-\]: think of the children D:
Bellicose [9k?\]: the children are busy playing this game
USSRMan [3d\]: p7 or r7?
USSRMan [3d\]: or tenuko
Muttley [2k\]: shame Ootamoku isn't here, he'd enjoy this game
liptos [4k\]: i like tenuko
yunoo: we do too
BOThater36 [4d\]: why Oo like this variation?
woodrose [1d\]: r7 i think
Muttley [2k\]: it is a violent game :)
RobertT [-\]: ootamoku would mark their move as wrong and assign them 1k ranks
Muttley [2k\]: he recommends strong shapes, attacking go, forget the counting :)
faustu [3k\]: P7 doesn't look playable
BOThater36 [4d\]: oh, not as vio as I thin
Muttley [2k\]: Q6 are under pressure for me
RobertT [-\]: ootakamoku*
Muttley [2k\]: thanks, RT
woodrose [1d\]: where are w's points?
BOThater36 [4d\]: Calvin's game more watchable
Cobrinha [5k\]: p7 isn't playable imo
basicpract [-\]: In the middle, of course :P
USSRMan [3d\]: what would zen do?
faustu [3k\]: G14 very tough decision considering this
BOThater36 [4d\]: believe it or not, I kick B's butt 3 years ago in US open, now, I have negative chance
buu [3d\]: reading reading
Cobrinha [5k\]: #wwzd?
yunoo: zen would play out 1000 games quickly
Muttley [2k\]: zen would discard the corner and lose by 20 points
woodrose [1d\]: what was his rank
BOThater36 [4d\]: 7 dan AGA
Bloar: yeah, g14 to me seems slow, but I must be missing something
woodrose [1d\]: nice
FCB [15k\]: R7?
xDragon [?\]: thats cause you keep playing bots
BOThater36 [4d\]: lol, I lose my confidence
Muttley [2k\]: nah, its because Bill is young and improves fast
BOThater36 [4d\]: against human
steady [4d?\]: wait
steady [4d?\]: who ever win this game
buu [3d\]: some jeff
steady [4d?\]: will play calvin right?
buu [3d\]: sup
woodrose [1d\]: yes
steady [4d?\]: sup i chated you..
xDragon [?\]: yes
Cos [2k\]: yep!
woodrose [1d\]: that is correct
BOThater36 [4d\]: yes, steady
buu [3d\]: oh ..
steady [4d?\]: Lol, gg, 
]
;W[om]
;B[qm]C[steady [4d?\]: gg..
Cobrinha [5k\]: lol
Muttley [2k\]: long think by w
]
;W[pk]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: hmm, if this work, B gets nnothing
liptos [4k\]: gg, huh? who win?
jhrtjfg: w running zen on his phone
USGO1 [-\]: w 47:00 remain, b 52:00
hyperpape: Myungwan, I think you can probably still beat Bill. 
Greytable: I hope B has read this out
xDragon [?\]: this could be a long endgame
]
;B[ro]C[herissondu [4d\]: this seems hard for w
BOThater36 [4d\]: not easy for white here sudenly
buu [3d\]: so does the winner of this game have to beat calvin twice to be pro??
herissondu [4d\]: what i sai
herissondu [4d\]: d
Cos [2k\]: yes
xDragon [?\]: yes buu
xDragon [?\]: while calvin just has to win once
faustu [3k\]: nothing sudden here :(
buu [3d\]: sucks to be them :PPP
BOThater36 [4d\]: against Lin, Calvin needs to win twice
Cobrinha [5k\]: cs needs just one win instead?
liptos [4k\]: w gotta protect p6 cut somehow
Cobrinha [5k\]: ok
xDragon [?\]: no bot
hyperpape: BOTHater, I think it's just one against Bill. 
Cobrinha [5k\]: so it's best of 3 if bill wins?
xDragon [?\]: its gonna be set at 1-0 because calvin beat bill in round 2
hyperpape: It's a best of 3 if they played a single game. 
Cobrinha [5k\]: ok
liptos [4k\]: w p6 i think
hyperpape: It's best of 5 if they played a 3 game series. 
hyperpape: So either way, Calvin will be ahead by one game. 
xDragon [?\]: either way, calvin just has to win once, and his opponent has to win twice
hyperpape: With (up to) two games to play. 
liptos [4k\]: or actually r6 push first
buu [3d\]: is the next series going to be best of 3 or best of 5 ...
buu [3d\]: the chart is really misleading ...
xDragon [?\]: -.-
xDragon [?\]: depends who wins this game
buu [3d\]: -_-
hyperpape: That's the weird thing bu, it's best of 3 if it's against Bill, best of 5 against Gan. 
BOThater36 [4d\]: I was on site yeaterday and still dont know.. :-(
Muttley [2k\]: out of curiousity, is P6 here sente for w?
buu [3d\]: worst system EVER
hyperpape: But it starts at 2-1 against Gan, starts at 1-0 against Bill. 
croc [4d\]: lin and gan are playing first in a best of 3?
liptos [4k\]: don't think so?
JosEquis [1d\]: that is a very pertinent questions
herissondu [4d\]: i don't think mutt mutt
faustu [3k\]: it would be nice
Muttley [2k\]: I wondered whether, if so, w can follow up crudely with M5?
faustu [3k\]: but not :(
xDragon [?\]: hyperpape is right
Muttley [2k\]: mmm, interestig
yunoo: technically its a bo3 with 1-0 for calvin in both cases
RobertT [-\]: since calvin has played vs bill before in a single game then it would be vs bill in a bo3 with the 1 win carrying over. since calvin played vs gan in a bo3 then it would be a bo5 with the 2 wins and 1 loss carrying over
Muttley [2k\]: I want to follow up with S4 is b tenuki
herissondu [4d\]: but
profan [-\]: w must fight hard now
herissondu [4d\]: p now would be interesting
profan [-\]: what about r2?
herissondu [4d\]: p6*
hyperpape: yunoo, that's not what the rules say, but it doesn't make a difference--it's as if it was a best of 3. 
BOThater36 [4d\]: yes, white P6 sente, B has to respond in R3 and get territory
buu [3d\]: the carry over system sucks
herissondu [4d\]: but the group would be pretty weak
yunoo: yes
Cobrinha [5k\]: s4 seems a difficul t move to answer
herissondu [4d\]: it's not "has to"
Muttley [2k\]: s4 R5 and tell me white's reply
xDragon [?\]: the carry over system makes it fair
Cobrinha [5k\]: r4?
xDragon [?\]: because that way the winners bracket has more of an advantage
xDragon [?\]: as it should be
RobertT [-\]: it doesn't make a difference in this case but if calvin won vs gan in the bo3 2-0 and gan beat bill then the finals would have been a bo5 with 2-0 meaning calvin would only have to win 1 and gan had to win 3
RobertT [-\]: its just in this case it doesn't matter
yunoo: yes
BOThater36 [4d\]: look like white need to S4 to stay in this game
awesome [4k\]: p5
GameofWind [2d\]: s4 r5 r4 s10 s11 s9 r11 q5 p5 p4 
buu [3d\]: so yolo mode for w
GameofWind [2d\]: s4 clearly not work
woodrose [1d\]: s10 s9 maybe
GameofWind [2d\]: p6, p8  vutting pointd
woodrose [1d\]: after p6
GameofWind [2d\]: *points
hikarupro [9k\]: whats the time USGO1?
GameofWind [2d\]: *cutting
GameofWind [2d\]: s9 impossible
CBlue [?\]: not sure Lin plays serious enough in general to be pro
CBlue [?\]: attitude-wise
BOThater36 [4d\]: but he improves
USSRMan [3d\]: you dont need to be serious to be a pro
]
;W[or]C[GameofWind [2d\]: b's practically alive here
BOThater36 [4d\]: yes, white must counter and sit and die
awesome [4k\]: something about the way he likes to put super glue on his stones so they cannot be captured
BOThater36 [4d\]: or sit and die
awesome [4k\]: so childish
xDragon [?\]: i was talking to bill a few weeks to amonth before the tournament began, he says he felt nervous about the pro exam, didnt feel like he was good enough to be pro
xDragon [?\]: but here he is
Cobrinha [5k\]: how old is he?
xDragon [?\]: 17
BOThater36 [4d\]: does he have teacher now?
JosEquis [1d\]: do the pros created by this tournament get to participate in pro tournaments?
Sheriffi [-\]: no
xDragon [?\]: dont know bot
xDragon [?\]: and yes they get to play in some asian tournaments
Vex [3d\]: a few korean ones josequis
faustu [3k\]: shocking
GameofWind [2d\]: r3 is enough?
jhrtjfg: winner gets to lose to leed sedol with 3 stones
danzi [-\]: i dont think so
buu [3d\]: lol
Cobrinha [5k\]: how did the other 2 pros do in those tournaments?
danzi [-\]: r2 p3
ndkrempel [2d?\]: R3 makes miai of P3 and P6?
danzi [-\]: r3*
ThiGar [4k\]: it's a lot of responsabilities to be a pro in a new pro structure. I wonder how last year's first two pros are faring
Vex [3d\]: not well cobrinha :)
javachip [3d\]: these players can't play lee sedol can they?
javachip [3d\]: they'd need handis
hyperpape: I didn't hear about Gansheng winning any games. I'm not sure Andy played in any Korean tournaments. 
Cobrinha [5k\]: uh much "not well"? :O
yunoo: in 5 years there will be 8 pros so they can do a league
buu [3d\]: i think the timing for prosystem in us is very premature 
croc [4d\]: b R-3 ok?
]
;B[on]C[Vex [3d\]: javachip - last years two pros played a special series with lee sedol, they both lost off 2h
BOThater36 [4d\]: game ends soon?
faustu [3k\]: good move
Greytable: There it is
xDragon [?\]: i dont see why people are surprised they lost to lee sedol at 2 stones
USSRMan [3d\]: i feel this move makes the game unncessarily complicated
javachip [3d\]: that means these pros are weaker than korean trainees
ThiGar [4k\]: hyperpope, wheren't they supposed to spend a first year training hard in korea?
embeck [4k\]: I don't beleive the curent AGA pros are spendig 100% of thir time/attention on Go...isn't Andy still in college?
hyperpape: They had an option to go train. It was unclear to me what was expected. 
hyperpape: I believe Gansheng did go and study in Korea and participated in one or more tournaments. 
hyperpape: To the best of my knowledge, Andy didn't. 
Nao [3d?\]: they were suppose to go train but korea canceled there sponsorship 
]
;W[rp]C[ThiGar [4k\]: really Nao?
Nao [3d?\]: thats why there is only 1 pro this year
]
;B[nm]C[USSRMan [3d\]: i remember something like this in a kblitz game
Nao [3d?\]: they had no sponsors this year but said next year they will have a sponsor again to make 2 pros instead of 1 like the first year
ThiGar [4k\]: you've checked your faccts?
RobertT [-\]: there is about a 3 stone difference between the lower strength pros and the top pros. the current aga top amateurs and aga pros would be about the same as the lower pros or just below them.
faustu [3k\]: story : w survives, b thick with target to chase round the dame center
BOThater36 [4d\]: S6?
GameofWind [2d\]: w misread O7
Nao [3d?\]: Yes it was posted on there website
GameofWind [2d\]: so sad
yunoo: at least they got to play lee sedol
hyperpape: search Gansheng Korea on the usgo site, and you'll see that he trained in Korea. 
]
;W[qr]C[hyperpape: When was the cancellation? 
]
;B[ol]C[faustu [3k\]: that's it
danzi [-\]: wow
Nao [3d?\]: AGA news said something like "due to unforunate events tygem is not sponsoring us this year" than something like "do not be alarmed we will still have the pro tournament and next year we will have another sponsor next year"
GameofWind [2d\]: now w's very farar behind
]
;W[nj]C[RobertT [-\]: due to broadcasting all the games on kgs with tygem as your sponsor *
Cobrinha [5k\]: also i guess there are some eastern pros that lose to ls 2hp so nothing shameful in that...
BOThater36 [4d\]: imo, good trade for w, damage control
javachip [3d\]: this american pro thing sounds very dubious
hhuuummm: who is the favorite for pro this year?
danzi [-\]: black got thickness
woodrose [1d\]: q2 has mad aji
pete038861 [4k\]: get all the korean, chinese go material and you can produce bunch of pros in america
Nao [3d?\]: Jianing gan and Bill Lin are the favorites
BOThater36 [4d\]: thickness in thislate stage not as useful as in fuseki
Vex [3d\]: q2 not so much aji
javachip [3d\]: i'd say a definition of a pro is one who doesn't take handi stones from anyone else ;)
RobertT [-\]: not usually a good business strategy to have tygem as your sponsor and broadcast all the game on kgs with the kgs viewership in the hundreds and tygem around 30......
]
;B[jm]C[Nao [3d?\]: Calvin Sun is playing very well this year
hyperpape: Last year the games were only broadcast on Tygem. 
hhuuummm: calvin is asian?
]
;W[im]C[xDragon [?\]: why does all the kibitz in these things do nothing but whine about the pro system, whine about the tournament rules, just whine in general
RobertT [-\]: no, last year they were broadcasted on tygem and kgs
pete038861 [4k\]: whine about the material instead
Bloar: I'm happy there is an AGA thing.
hyperpape: Really? I thought I couldn't watch them. 
RobertT [-\]: with the only benifit that 9p was review on tygem
]
;B[oh]C[hyperpape: Javachip, Go Seigen made Sakata Eio take handicap...
Nao [3d?\]: I like the pro system
javachip [3d\]: no he didn't
Nao [3d?\]: I think its better than nothing
BOThater36 [4d\]: I am never a fan of us pro
hyperpape: Look at the Senseis' page, he absolutely did. 
Nao [3d?\]: every country has to start somewhere
hhuuummm: yes, 1p usa will be like 5d ama 6 year old china
hhuuummm: :|
USSRMan [3d\]: those handicaps are different
javachip [3d\]: i suppose if you count forcing black without komi or something like that
ThiGar [4k\]: The AGA pro is a geat initiative. It probably also prompted the EGF to start the same thing.
]
;W[eq]C[profan [-\]: where are white points?
Cobrinha [5k\]: i think there is pro and pro...many average pro would need hp to beat top tier imo...
javachip [3d\]: Go Seigen as in Master Oh/Wu right?
hyperpape: Yes. 
xDragon [?\]: peopel edont understand that thigar
ekwulubo: s3 any danger?
liptos [4k\]: whoa e3
Nao [3d?\]: It does not matter how weak or how strong the u.s is or was every country has to start somewhere and every country started weak
javachip [3d\]: that doesn't count, besides the generation was different
hyperpape: He forced Sakata to Sen-ai-sen. 
hhuuummm: i though asians starts at 9p
Nao [3d?\]: Everywhere rises to par eventully
xDragon [?\]: everyone thinkts its bad because the pros sarent stronger than the 14 year olds who spend nearly their entire lives training to be pro in schools and leagues
xDragon [?\]: why do you expect the US to compete with asian pros immediately
terrymac [?\]: Calvin Sun was born in California
javachip [3d\]: i don't
basicpract [-\]: hyperpape, that simply means sakata took black twice as much as white.
javachip [3d\]: that's the whole point
DrwsyClown [-\]: 1p us are actually pretty strong, andy liu already defeated some pros in the past (before even getting to us pro lvl) I'm not sure about gansheng tho
Nao [3d?\]: Yes time is needed before we can compete with another country
xDragon [?\]: its never going to happen unless go is more integrated into american society
omggg [?\]: game
DrwsyClown [-\]: so more like 6d china
USSRMan [3d\]: us doesnt have a very large go playing population
]
;B[jk]C[hyperpape: Actually, he beat Sakata to josen. 
kmr [1d\]: to start professional system somwhere u need cash, and to get cash u need to game be attractive to ppl and popular there.Go isnt too popular in europe so not much chance to start in europe pro system.
BOThater36 [4d\]: what I heard is the resident pro will lose their pro status unless they also into this selection system
hyperpape: Doesn't matter, DrwsyClown, Sakata needed a handicap. 
xDragon [?\]: so java why cant us have a pro system
basicpract [-\]: josen is sakata always taking black :)
basicpract [-\]: still no actual handicap stones involved :)
Nao [3d?\]: Jealousy!
hyperpape: Yes. Black, no komi. That's a handicap of one. 
Nao [3d?\]: lol
javachip [3d\]: because a real pro would force 2 handi or more
]
;W[pi]
;B[ph]C[danzi [-\]: white no territory
]
;W[mi]C[xDragon [?\]: so?
hyperpape: Believe me, Go Seigen could have beat other pros with 2 stones...
xDragon [?\]: what does it matter to you
Nao [3d?\]: Your defenition of a real pro is sad javachip....
hyperpape: No handicap is just not accurate. 
Nao [3d?\]: I guess that means no country has proffessionals since there has been pros who take handicap and have lost :(
embeck [4k\]: so Japanese baseball temas aren't real pro...because they would be beaten by US teams?
liptos [4k\]: i keept saying, we just have to convince abc to start airing hikaru no go in place of dancing with the stars
Nao [3d?\]: In all countrys
ekwulubo: s3?
xDragon [?\]: by the way, this is in java's profile:  4) Being very strong in baduk (unless one is a pro) is usually a sign that one is a duffer/loser in life.
Cobrinha [5k\]: lol liptos
xDragon [?\]: we should just ignore the troll
embeck [4k\]: agreed\\
Nao [3d?\]: Even Honinbo shusaku took handicap from his upper classman for a very long time
buu [3d\]: the problem is that all aga pro or protential aga pro are asian :PP
JosEquis [1d\]: i'd agree that a pro system implies $
embeck [4k\]: there atre many lower level pros that can't compete at the top levels
yunoo: sarcasm doesnt work on internet
Cobrinha [5k\]: agreed embeck
embeck [4k\]: just as there are many golf pros (mostly teaching pros) that caqn't compete with tiger woods
javachip [3d\]: in Korea 1 dans play even with Lee Sedol
xDragon [?\]: ↑ ignore
Nao [3d?\]: I don't care what race the AGA pros are they represent us
Nao [3d?\]: and thats what matters
Cobrinha [5k\]: there are many many pros that have never reached even the possibility to enter a league in all their career...
Nao [3d?\]: They have more guts than the lot of you :)
base [-\]: Javachip all pro's would play 'even' with Lee Sedol.
USSRMan [3d\]: lee sedol said the 90's generation of go players are much tougher than the 80's generation
basicpract [-\]: All AGA pros are American, by definition :P
base [-\]: he's also retiring soon.
Vex [3d\]: i think the diff between the 1p's in europe/us and asia is that 1p's here make stupid opening errors, in asia it's just down to reading
T4L0N [1d\]: North American Basicpract. :P
Nao [3d?\]: All brave enough to aim for such a career so I don't care what they look like there awesome anyway :)
basicpract [-\]: I did not say United States, did I?
RobertT [-\]: all participants in this tournament are u.s. or canadian born
javachip [3d\]: the whole lee sedol thing is a bit misleading
javachip [3d\]: i think a 1dan from china or korea could have given 2 handi as well
danzi [-\]: l8?
RobertT [-\]: and 1/4th aren't asian decent
base [-\]: Back to the game at hand
Herod [-\]: Is anyone (besides the players) paying any attention  to the game?
xDragon [?\]: no java is trying to troll us
xDragon [?\]: can you stop it please
basicpract [-\]: Everyone is :P
Jermelle [-\]: LOL
USSRMan [3d\]: im paying attention, black won
danzi [-\]: me
base [-\]: i'm trying too
danzi [-\]: lol
]
;B[il]C[ThiGar [4k\]: back to absurd debates over identity (sigh)
yunoo: i've seen andy win against a 9p here on kgs, so its not that easy
Nao [3d?\]: I disagree javachip the 1p that passed the pro tournament last year both have beaten pros from other countrys 
Kretzsche [2k?\]: SE: w+72
kermit81 [12k?\]: trying to.. how should b take advantage of getting into middle?
Nao [3d?\]: but I think it depends on the pro your talking about there are some strong 1dan pro out there
Greytable: USA USA USA
Cobrinha [5k\]: black won long ago imo so we are just ranting :)
liptos [4k\]: beating 9p is easy
javachip [3d\]: which young pros have they beaten?
kermit81 [12k?\]: ah good
USSRMan [3d\]: white's middle not even as big as black's top left
]
;W[hl]C[basicpract [-\]: Java is sad because he will never be a go pro :P
]
;B[hk]C[dogbert [4d\]: is this a best of 3?
basicpract [-\]: so he lashes out :)
]
;W[gk]C[USSRMan [3d\]: and black has other assets like bottom left and top right
javachip [3d\]: ;)
javachip [3d\]: that must be it
Nao [3d?\]: Whtie seems to be getting pushed around but I dont know if hes losing
RobertT [-\]: dogbert, this is single game
hobajons [-\]: w is winning
basicpract [-\]: I think so. Internet psychology wins!
]
;B[ch]C[danzi [-\]: how is white winning
mdrose [9k\]: javachip has put a lot of time into playing go, came to the conclusion that his time was wasted, and became bitter about it
liptos [4k\]: hmm n17?
basicpract [-\]: and rose is even a doctor :P
xDragon [?\]: and now he wants to make everyone else who plays go miserable
javachip [3d\]: i didn't put that much time... i've been playing for about 2 years now
BOThater36 [4d\]: who beat lin in early round?
JosEquis [1d\]: awww yeahhh
Nao [3d?\]: Lol herod!
xDragon [?\]: to the egr!
danzi [-\]: lol
base [-\]: thank you
Nao [3d?\]: He lost to calvin sun BOThater36
Nao [3d?\]: Calvin Sun has been playing AMAZING this tournament 
BOThater36 [4d\]: arr
Nao [3d?\]: He juts might pass with the way hes been playing
javachip [3d\]: not to belabor this point...
javachip [3d\]: but does Europe have a pro system?
Nao [3d?\]: Not yet
Mef [-\]: They tried to start one a bit ago, no?
faustu [3k\]: when is the next decent game ?
woodrose [1d\]: no
Nao [3d?\]: I heard they are trying and "might" get help from china
danzi [-\]: who in china
hyperpape: There's a strasbourg page that says there's a two person qualifier in May. 
]
;W[lb]C[RobertT [-\]: game looks fairly close but I still count black up
danzi [-\]: top pros?
MrEmDash [1d\]: its ok java i like u
]
;B[lc]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: looks b leads 10
Bloar: I think it's great America is promoting Go.  I was hoping The Surrounding Game would be a succesful movie.
danzi [-\]: m18 is definietly nota pro move
hobajons [-\]: ew gross
Nao [3d?\]: Not sure danzi I just heard it from a few of the high euro players but atm its just rumor
MrEmDash [1d\]: what happened to that?
jodageezer [7k?\]: The KGA supports the AGA pro system. The Chinese Go Assn will be supporting the European pro sysytem.
javachip [3d\]: thanks ;)
danzi [-\]: oh
MrEmDash [1d\]: it just fizzled out
javachip [3d\]: i know the internet is a place to get bashed for telling the truth ;)
tymak [1k\]: in europe is new pro system about to start...during 2014 firt qualification and in first half of 2015 first pro exam lsimilar like AGA
Nao [3d?\]: Yeah that's what I was told @tymak 
Mef [-\]: They tried to do a pro league back a few years ago...not sure if anything ever came of it
xDragon [?\]: the internet is a place to get bashed when you try to push your opinion as fact
]
;W[kb]C[Nao [3d?\]: But, I dont know any of the details
RobertT [-\]: the chinese go association has nothing to do with the european system. the partner for the european system is a chinese culture company
RobertT [-\]: who is privatly sponsored by go player chinese people
ThiGar [4k\]: Nao, hyperpope, here's the contract: http://www.britgo.org/files/China.pdf
yunoo: i would start with an insei league, but why not
DickOne [?\]: WqiqiTV reviewed one of Iliya Shikshin's games, said his fighting is stronger than some pros
]
;B[jb]C[Nao [3d?\]: Thanks @ ThisGar
Nao [3d?\]: *ThiGar
xDragon [?\]: yeah of all the amateurs right now, i think roln has the best shot of being pro
xDragon [?\]: ive never seen him attempt to become pro though
danzi [-\]: it seems like u cant download KGS on IOS
RobertT [-\]: beijing zong yi yuan cheng culture communication co. =/= chinese go association
MrEmDash [1d\]: well his sister is pro right?
]
;W[mc]C[danzi [-\]: it would be very useful
xDragon [?\]: she is, yes
faustu [3k\]: he don't want to that's why
basicpract [-\]: I am rooting for Antii :)
danzi [-\]: j15
xDragon [?\]: antti is trying to go back to japan to become insei again this year
Mef [-\]: kgs runs on java danzi, so if the system doesn't support java then... )=
GotopiaTV [?\]: iam online with an ipad
]
;B[ka]C[tymak [1k\]: http://www.eurogofed.org/egf/CEGO_contract.pdf
danzi [-\]: :(
basicpract [-\]: good for him :)
danzi [-\]: ipad
tymak [1k\]: there are details about new system
xDragon [?\]: antti went to japan in E class, he left japan as winner of C class insei league
Nao [3d?\]: Very exciting that europe getting pros to
danzi [-\]: really basicpract?
base [-\]: back to the game guys. 
danzi [-\]: oh
USSRMan [3d\]: isnt q2 dangerous for white?
]
;W[mb]C[danzi [-\]: fine
faustu [3k\]: w should S6 next
HolySmoke [1k\]: close, but w is leading
danzi [-\]: really?
]
;B[pb]
;W[ob]
;B[qa]C[Cobrinha [5k\]: how could this be close?
Nao [3d?\]: I think w is leading by 5
GotopiaTV [?\]: drunk
Nao [3d?\]: but black has more room to invade
Nao [3d?\]: I am gonna say that whoever has better endgame will win
]
;W[qo]C[GameofWind [2d\]: B's leading about 6-7 plus komi
Bloar: to me, g14 seems an odd move.  I still don't get it
]
;B[mh]
;W[lh]
;B[mg]C[GameofWind [2d\]: and b's having sente so the distance can be further
ThiGar [4k\]: g14 started it all
base [-\]: gameofwind komi goes to white. 
]
;W[kl]
;B[jl]C[GameofWind [2d\]: yes i mean plus komi for w 
herissondu [4d\]: b+10
saodiseng [5d\]: are they palying two straight games?
base [-\]: then it should be with komi. 
]
;W[ki]C[liptos [4k\]: can b get cut here?
odnihs [5d\]: it's best of 1
basicpract [-\]: I never account for the scoring system difference. Stones count as points?
woodrose [1d\]: m15 
yorugua [6k\]: I thought this was best of 3
saodiseng [5d\]: huh? so how come the result is already posted? b+r
]
;B[rn]C[base [-\]: stones on the board basicpract
Mef [-\]: AGA rules score within 1 point of japanese rules for most of the time basicpract
xDragon [?\]: that was the result of the lin v lu game
xDragon [?\]: @sao
]
;W[oq]C[saodiseng [5d\]: ok thanks
gloooomph [1d\]: in what situations is the difference more than 1 point?
hobajons [-\]: ok listen up guys im calling w+2.5
Mef [-\]: very odd seki/ko shapes
]
;B[lj]C[IlanKeshet [2k?\]: what does the winner get ? a pro status?
Vex [3d\]: q3 directly was not working earlier q3 p3 r3 s3 s2 q1 r1 p1 
Mef [-\]: and situations involving long cycles
ThiGar [4k\]: now w m5  looks like a dangerous cut, no?
]
;W[li]C[danzi [-\]: face calvin
basicpract [-\]: it seemed like SE was 8 points off in one of the round one games, even at the end?
hikarupro [9k\]: b+3.5
RobertT [-\]: winner of this game goes to the finals, winner of the finals becomes aga pro
Vex [3d\]: but of course lots of things like s3 worked
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: *what does the winner of the tournament gets
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: thanks robert
hobajons [-\]: turns pro
RobertT [-\]: + prize money
Mef [-\]: SE doesn't do well with AGA rules
Cobrinha [5k\]: and 1.5k
danzi [-\]: lol
]
;B[jn]C[basicpract [-\]: right, but if it is only one point, why is there a problem so big?
]
;W[lo]C[RobertT [-\]: SE doesn't do well with area scoring and kgs coded aga rules to use area scoring
danzi [-\]: j5 first?
]
;B[mo]C[Mef [-\]: I would imagine it's because SE tries to take into account differences in AGA vs. japanese
]
;W[ip]C[basicpract [-\]: ahh :P
danzi [-\]: nvm
ThiGar [4k\]: has SE been peer reviewed?
]
;B[mk]C[reprisal [2d\]: yes
reprisal [2d\]: wms reviewed it
reprisal [2d\]: and his judgement was most harsh
Muttley [2k\]: if you want SE to "work", clone the game and change the rules to Japanese
Mef [-\]: SE is apparently a garbled mess that was a gift to wms years and years ago (=
RobertT [-\]: sadly kgs SE is the 3rd most accurate SE I've seen on go servers
faustu [3k\]: but, he didn't act on the judgement anyway
danzi [-\]: tygem SE is good
]
;W[ie]C[reprisal [2d\]: well he said he wanted to cut it but its too popular
]
;B[jd]C[reprisal [2d\]: so it stays
]
;W[lf]C[yorugua [6k\]: tygem se is pretty much flawless
faustu [3k\]: it's our mascotte...
palapiku [-\]: this match is a single game, right?
Muttley [2k\]: Don't worry people, Score est is also used in Skynet.
Vex [3d\]: oro, kaya, tygem and ogs SE all better, so not top3 :p
mdrose [9k\]: robertt, ? lol which server had worse
]
;B[bk]C[mdrose [9k\]: seems like every other server has a better se
RobertT [-\]: OGS se is far far worse
woodrose [1d\]: oro and tygem avec the same se
]
;W[er]
;B[bs]C[gloooomph [1d\]: kaya's SE is pretty unresponsive
]
;W[bl]C[yunoo: but you can adjust thing on ogs
palapiku [-\]: kaya no longer exists
profan [-\]: igs se is gnu linux ^^
palapiku [-\]: so it doesn't count
profan [-\]: w +2.345667777 ^^
DrwsyClown [-\]: feels like b ahead
danzi [-\]: how od u open SE on kgs i dont have it
palapiku [-\]: jianing better win this one
ThiGar [4k\]: time is ripe for open source go
xDragon [?\]: download the client
Muttley [2k\]: danzi, d/l the client
xDragon [?\]: insetad of using web launch
danzi [-\]: oh
Muttley [2k\]: use NFA version
danzi [-\]: but client doesnt work
]
;B[nr]C[RobertT [-\]: ogs se would mark the opening of a 2 stone handicap game as b  + 150
danzi [-\]: it says java 
danzi [-\]: doesnt work
danzi [-\]: :(
RobertT [-\]: by opening I mean like 20 moves in
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: upgrade java
danzi [-\]: i did
Muttley [2k\]: well, you're here so java obviously works
Mef [-\]: Clear your java cache
]
;W[os]C[danzi [-\]: ok
danzi [-\]: thx
Muttley [2k\]: what Mef said :)
Mef [-\]: you probably just need to redownload the webstart file
palapiku [-\]: danzi it's the same java in your browser and on the desktop, since you are here that means it works
danzi [-\]: :)
]
;B[jr]
;W[ir]
;B[ks]C[danzi [-\]: g1
]
;W[nk]C[palapiku [-\]: what a strange game, nothing died...
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: yet.
steady [4d?\]: lol
]
;B[nl]C[palapiku [-\]: nothing is going to die
jhrtjfg: time left?
woodrose [1d\]: if nothing dies, nothing lives
hobajons [-\]: everything wille ventualy die
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: when a ko breaks out -- things can always die
hobajons [-\]: kappa
danzi [-\]: s3?
Muttley [2k\]: oik, time to count again
Muttley [2k\]: w+2.5
gloooomph [1d\]: b+10
Greytable: u count quick
Greytable: :)
danzi [-\]: can bill kill right corner
jhrtjfg: b+45.5
Muttley [2k\]: well, I made that one up
]
;W[eh]C[danzi [-\]: lol
]
;B[ef]C[gloooomph [1d\]: I made mine up too but it's more accurate than yours
Muttley [2k\]: like I said, transparency :0
]
;W[hj]
;B[sp]C[herissondu [4d\]: b+7.5
Tabemasu [2d?\]: danzi -> s3 t4 r3 s2
]
;W[rq]C[danzi [-\]: ya i guess
danzi [-\]: looks weird htough
Vex [3d\]: b+10 yeah
]
;B[ri]C[MaLa [3d\]: depressing for gan
MaLa [3d\]: considering how his last 3 games went
prime [-\]: Billins got this
herissondu [4d\]: wow b got s11
Vex [3d\]: i am supporting bill anyway. have to vote for the ppl who keep kgs alive :)
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: must really suck to get to the finals of this tournament -- and just about to get the pro title -- and lose the game.
Greytable: n14
Muttley [2k\]: 84 b, 80.5 w
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: must be like the worst feeling in the world
Muttley [2k\]: I think b win by 5.5 on the grounds of sente
danzi [-\]: white plus komi?
jhrtjfg: billlin for pro
]
;W[ck]C[prime [-\]: billin for president
]
;B[bj]C[xDragon [?\]: well if jianing loses then he gets auto entry into the next pro qualifier
mdrose [9k\]: bill lin plays on kgs a lot?
hobajons [-\]: remeber i said that w wins by 2.3
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: so if bill lin gets the pro title -- his KGS rank will change to 1p right
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: ?
hobajons [-\]: 2.5*
MaLa [3d\]: nope
prime [-\]: he's actually "sleeping" on KGS right now
xDragon [?\]: only if he wants it to ilan
Vex [3d\]: he can choose ilan
MaLa [3d\]: unless he asks for it
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: ok
xDragon [?\]: he can make another pro account though
prime [-\]: ilan? whats that?
MaLa [3d\]: a name
palapiku [-\]: oh i didn't realize both players were canadian
]
;W[ln]C[IlanKeshet [2k?\]: my name
mdrose [9k\]: what's his username?
]
;B[lm]C[palapiku [-\]: ok then it doesn't matter who wins
xDragon [?\]: billlin
palapiku [-\]: go canada!!
prime [-\]: oh duh
JesusTeAma [3k\]: l9
xDragon [?\]: yes regardless itll be usa vs canada in the finals
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: oh billlin is canadian?
danzi [-\]: bill is in the league
danzi [-\]: ya
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: i didn't know...
xDragon [?\]: yes, from vancouver
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: Go billlin ^_^
]
;W[kk]C[palapiku [-\]: bill lin is from vancouver, jianing from toronto
USSRMan [3d\]: 1812 all over again
JesusTeAma [3k\]: YES I DID IT 
palapiku [-\]: go bill!!!
T4L0N [1d\]: This is good for W
ashkatriz [-\]: bill's awesome 
ashkatriz [-\]: he's also too tall
]
;B[kj]C[danzi [-\]: nice move
]
;W[jj]C[Greytable: Well done jesus
GameofWind [2d\]: m8 
xDragon [?\]: im taller than bill
]
;B[km]C[danzi [-\]: lol
]
;W[ik]C[ashkatriz [-\]: xdragon i cant attest to that if i dont know you
Demon [3d\]: the best sente
]
;B[lk]C[Vex [3d\]: w nice yose
Cobrinha [5k\]: i'm taller than you and bill :)
xDragon [?\]: im about 6'5
ashkatriz [-\]: ..
xDragon [?\]: just under 2 meters
]
;W[rj]C[USSRMan [3d\]: that was quite a tesuji
]
;B[rk]C[danzi [-\]: bills 7D
Cobrinha [5k\]: 6 7 2 meters exactly :)
ashkatriz [-\]: wth
dogbert [4d\]: why m9?
herissondu [4d\]: omg so smaaaaaart
ashkatriz [-\]: why so tall
xDragon [?\]: ok youre taller than me then
danzi [-\]: i dunno
jhrtjfg: 672 meters really tall
Vex [3d\]: if no m9 then m8 n7 n10 
xDragon [?\]: ive never seen a taller go player
danzi [-\]: oh
Cobrinha [5k\]: but not than bill :(
dogbert [4d\]: oh
palapiku [-\]: would you rather be a stone stronger or an inch taller
xDragon [?\]: i saw bill at go congress, i dont rmember him being that tall
danzi [-\]: m8 n7 n10 dogbert
]
;W[ed]C[Cobrinha [5k\]: ofc 1 inch taller :)
dogbert [4d\]: m9 was needed
danzi [-\]: ya
xDragon [?\]: id rather be a stone stronger, i like my height
hobajons [-\]: depends where
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: ...
Zen19E [5d\]: hahaha
BOThater36 [4d\]: does white have chance?
danzi [-\]: i think so
Cobrinha [5k\]: lol
dogbert [4d\]: w got mch bigger center than one expect
saodiseng [5d\]: i think it's close, anyone counted?
]
;B[mf]C[danzi [-\]: yup
]
;W[me]
;B[ld]C[danzi [-\]: close
]
;W[le]C[awesome [4k\]: p13
Demon [3d\]: i haven't counted, but still going with w like earlier in the game
danzi [-\]: white 70?
]
;B[lg]
;W[kg]
;B[je]C[yunoo: i counted b+10 then i gave up
]
;W[jf]C[IlanKeshet [2k?\]: 7.5 komi is pretty huge...
]
;B[sj]C[IlanKeshet [2k?\]: is w picked over black?
saodiseng [5d\]: shouldn't black o11 first?
ashkatriz [-\]: no w is around 67
danzi [-\]: black is winning
danzi [-\]: black is arounf 80
danzi [-\]: around*
ashkatriz [-\]: leggo biiiiiiiiiiiill
prime [-\]: SE agrees
saodiseng [5d\]: or rather p11 then o11
saodiseng [5d\]: then t10
ashkatriz [-\]: is this the last game
hobajons [-\]: like i said w +2.5
steady [4d?\]: VERy very close
]
;W[ak]
;B[bi]C[hobajons [-\]: i called 2.5 years ago
hobajons [-\]: be ready
saodiseng [5d\]: f14 big too
awesome [4k\]: go ninja
hobajons [-\]: for physic mike
ashkatriz [-\]: b has like 85 are you kidding
]
;W[la]
;B[ja]C[BOThater36 [4d\]: B 10+ on board
palapiku [-\]: b ahead by thousands
shinkertif [1d\]: i also counted w+2
ashkatriz [-\]: b is ahead by a lot
JosEquis [1d\]: doesn't seem close
hikarupro [9k\]: time?
]
;W[oo]C[JosEquis [1d\]: f15?
JosEquis [1d\]: also g1?
danzi [-\]: g1 is quite big
ashkatriz [-\]: physic mike
ashkatriz [-\]: do you even gravity
]
;B[ff]
;W[fi]C[saodiseng [5d\]: com'on play f14 already 
saodiseng [5d\]: thank you
hobajons [-\]: but i do lift
hobajons [-\]: xD
BOThater36 [4d\]: Calvin take a good sleep tonight is big advantage
]
;B[qn]
;W[po]C[IlanKeshet [2k?\]: f14? why
ashkatriz [-\]: lol
ashkatriz [-\]: do you lift like dre
USSRMan [3d\]: f14 easy sente
JosEquis [1d\]: he's doing sente moves frist
]
;B[md]
;W[nd]
;B[og]C[IlanKeshet [2k?\]: f14... does it even gain any points
saodiseng [5d\]: sure it does
awesome [4k\]: j1
]
;W[nf]C[basicpract [-\]: g15 not a point :)
hobajons [-\]: and he goes into final with an advantage no matter what
Vex [3d\]: 2.5pts
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: wait u mean f15 or f14
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: cause there's a stone at f14
basicpract [-\]: f14, played the turn before he wanted it :P
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: oh
osome [6k\]: p9 is sente
herissondu [4d\]: b+7.5 still
ThiGar [4k\]: better o11 before n16
]
;B[is]
;W[hs]
;B[js]C[saodiseng [5d\]: j1 big
odnihs [5d\]: I have like b_2
odnihs [5d\]: b+2*
Bloar: poor W
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: g1 for black if w ignores
danzi [-\]: so close
Muttley [2k\]: g1 doesn't work, of course
saodiseng [5d\]: f1 muttley
]
;W[es]C[ashkatriz [-\]: crap i totally just left out white's corner
]
;B[oa]C[ashkatriz [-\]: derp
saodiseng [5d\]: e1 is necessary
]
;W[na]C[IlanKeshet [2k?\]: why didn't black play g1 instead of j1?
Muttley [2k\]: yes, e1 necessary, but g1 for b if w tenuki didn't work :;
saodiseng [5d\]: black g1 white h1
saodiseng [5d\]: the ko might kill you in a close game
JosEquis [1d\]: maybe it's a sente/gote thing
Muttley [2k\]: g1 h2, no ko?
QwertyN [6k\]: g1 was better
jhrtjfg: liberties
]
;B[no]C[jhrtjfg: not ko
hobajons [-\]: all right w+2.5 i called it years ago
basicpract [-\]: g1 h1 e1 f1 f2 g2 
saodiseng [5d\]: then you lost a point
Muttley [2k\]: e1 f1 f2 g2
]
;W[sq]
;B[so]C[Fredda [-\]: b is short
danzi [-\]: so intense
]
;W[ns]
;B[ms]C[Muttley [2k\]: did w lose a point that way?
]
;W[kd]
;B[jc]C[base [-\]: +5 for black? aga rules hurt my head
shinkertif [1d\]: i supported jianing all the time  but he loses this one
danzi [-\]: 7.5 komi
]
;W[ap]
;B[aj]
;W[al]C[Muttley [2k\]: ok, right :) the irony is, I would e1 anyway as honte
]
;B[np]C[saodiseng [5d\]: no choicce white p4
]
;W[op]
;B[de]C[danzi [-\]: r11
saodiseng [5d\]: d15
Mef [-\]: In this game, if you count like you would a japanese rules game, the result will be within 1 point (=
USSRMan [3d\]: massive win for black
basicpract [-\]: SE: B+13 :P
palapiku [-\]: epic
danzi [-\]: simple win for black?
basicpract [-\]: so SE probabl still coutns captures?
]
;W[ok]C[danzi [-\]: no big fights though
Vex [3d\]: SE doesnt work with AGA
]
;B[oi]
;W[ng]
;B[nh]
;W[pa]
;B[qi]
;W[pj]
;B[oa]C[IlanKeshet [2k?\]: AGA is similar counting to chinese
Muttley [2k\]: 85 b, 80.5 w still
saodiseng [5d\]: black won
yorugua [6k\]: b+2.5
Muttley [2k\]: gratz Bill
]
;W[qk]C[IlanKeshet [2k?\]: my last comment was a question not a statement
BOThater36 [4d\]: how did you get white 80, mutt?
Muttley [2k\]: 7.5 komi
JesusTeAma [3k\]: ?
]
;B[pa]C[Mef [-\]: oh, yes AGA rules are area scoring, like chinese
danzi [-\]: white wins?
]
;W[ji]
;B[aq]
;W[ao]
;B[ee]
;W[ge]C[Muttley [2k\]: I count w has having 73
]
;B[ni]
;W[mj]
;B[ds]
;W[oj]C[saodiseng [5d\]: i count black won but bothater knows i can't count
]
;B[fe]C[Muttley [2k\]: Japanese counting, admittedly
]
;W[]
;B[]TW[ma][nb][nc][ne][hf][if][kf][gg][ig][jg][fh][hh][jh][kh][hi][ii][ej][fj][gj][ij][ek][fk][hk][dl][el][fl][gl][am][bm][cm][dm][em][fm][gm][hm][an][bn][cn][dn][en][fn][gn][hn][eo][fo][go][ho][io][ep][fp][gp][hp][jp][qp][gq][hq][pq][qq][fr][gr][hr][pr][rr][sr][fs][gs][ps][qs][rs][ss]TB[aa][ba][ca][da][ea][fa][ga][ha][ia][ra][sa][ab][bb][cb][db][eb][fb][gb][hb][ib][qb][sb][ac][bc][cc][hc][ic][qc][sc][ad][bd][rd][sd][ae][be][qe][se][af][bf][df][qf][rf][sf][ag][bg][cg][dg][pg][rg][sg][ah][bh][rh][sh][ai][ci][si][kk][sk][kl][ll][ml][rl][sl][mm][om][rm][sm][nn][sn][mp][cq][br][cr][kr][mr][as][ls]C[shinkertif [1d\]: why the score estimator so silli countiing
yorugua [6k\]: b+2.5
USGO1 [-\]: scoring!
danzi [-\]: wow
xDragon [?\]: here we go
USGO1 [-\]: please standby
Muttley [2k\]: rule set, shinker
MaLa [3d\]: :(
xDragon [?\]: who faces calvin
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: can u just count on this board here?
Mef [-\]: there are some quirks in the rules that allow you to *count* using either Japanese or Chinese style, but the result will agree with Chinese
base [-\]: Bill
danzi [-\]: intense momney
Muttley [2k\]: clearly Bill
jhrtjfg: b+900
Zen19E [5d\]: b+3.5?
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: using the score tool
palapiku [-\]: bill+
Muttley [2k\]: b+4.5 I think
saodiseng [5d\]: komi is 7.5
MaLa [3d\]: if SE is set to AGA it will count nonsense
RobertT [-\]: b+ komi
USSRMan [3d\]: b + 7.5
svartrev [4k\]: b + about 7?
MaLa [3d\]: you can set rules to jap and it will count correct
faustu [3k\]: if ?
USSRMan [3d\]: quite massive
danzi [-\]: who wins?
yorugua [6k\]: nah 2.5
ashkatriz [-\]: bill
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: score tool gives black winning by 7.5
Muttley [2k\]: MaLa, "Jp" or "Japanese" please
xDragon [?\]: theyre counting
Muttley [2k\]: thank you :)
xDragon [?\]: its not official yet
T4L0N [1d\]: They're counting
saodiseng [5d\]: usgo will give use scoring
wsn [5k\]: 1, 2,3,4,5,6,7.7, pick one when you guess
MaLa [3d\]: i will try to remember
danzi [-\]: :)
RobertT [-\]: cheating! ;p
jhrtjfg: b+9000
danzi [-\]: thx
ashkatriz [-\]: nah man
ashkatriz [-\]: bill
Muttley [2k\]: thx
danzi [-\]: wow
Jermelle [-\]: dang
danzi [-\]: 1
BOThater36 [4d\]: nice game bill
Jermelle [-\]: shame on bill
yorugua [6k\]: :)
danzi [-\]: oh
jhrtjfg: huge win
danzi [-\]: white won?
RobertT [-\]: yay got the counting spot on
palapiku [-\]: is that before or after komi
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: yay billin
danzi [-\]: plus komi?
awesome [4k\]: b+.5?
RobertT [-\]: b+ 7.5
Lsugyen [6d\]: so Black wins by 7.5?
danzi [-\]: oh black won
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: 7.5 after komi
Jermelle [-\]: how much did he win by??
Lsugyen [6d\]: that's a lot!
danzi [-\]: wow
danzi [-\]: 7.5
jhrtjfg: 90000
USGO1 [-\]: black wins by 7.5 points
palapiku [-\]: oh right how can it be .5 before komi
Jermelle [-\]: xD yay
ashkatriz [-\]: YEAH BILL
saodiseng [5d\]: nice game both
USSRMan [3d\]: black's opening was just better
Muttley [2k\]: congrats bill
USSRMan [3d\]: gave him easy game
svartrev [4k\]: so Bill faces Calvin 1 down in a best of 5 ?
palapiku [-\]: vancouver!!
odnihs [5d\]: bo3
hobajons [-\]: no
yorugua [6k\]: 15 before komi
hobajons [-\]: this is best of 3
Schnapps [2k\]: So Bill vs Calvin in best of 3 or best of 5
danzi [-\]: lol
USGO1 [-\]: Thank you for joining us!  And we'll see you all tomorrow morning at 9:30 pacific for the first game between Calvin & Bill!
RobertT [-\]: in a best of 3
hobajons [-\]: NO
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: im from vancouver ^_^... 
IlanKeshet [2k?\]: go vancouver
hobajons [-\]: its best of 3
hobajons [-\]: this series
hyperpape: 1 down in a best of 3. 
palapiku [-\]: me too
USGO1 [-\]: it's a best of 3 with the score initially set to 1-0 in calvin's favor
palapiku [-\]: vancouver the best
proxima [5k?\]: Thanks USGO1
svartrev [4k\]: why Bo3 instead of Bo5 ?
Schnapps [2k\]: Thanks USGO1 :)
hikarupro [9k\]: whens the next game?
hyperpape: Because they previously played a single game. 
USGO1 [-\]: 9:30am pacific tomorrow morning
ThiGar [4k\]: thx USGO1
RobertT [-\]: because the players have only played a single game before. if they played a bo3 before then it would be a bo5
svartrev [4k\]: wow, such a convoluted system...
danzi [-\]: whats the pacific room
svartrev [4k\]: yeah, thanks USGO1
proxima [5k?\]: pacific time (California)
danzi [-\]: oh
danzi [-\]: :)
])
