(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[AGA]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[5400]OT[5x60 byo-yomi]
GN[1st AGA-TYGEMGO Pro Finals - 7A, game 2]PW[GanSheng Shi]PB[Jianing Gan]WR[7d]BR[6d]DT[2012-08-04]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]US[Dennis Wheeler / Todd Heidenreich]C[eric1010 [1k\]: hi
Vizsla [2d\]: didnt gan beat andy? i thought that was his last game?
CrossKid [6d\]: gansheng shi lost to andy
CrossKid [6d\]: and jianing gan lost to andy too but its double elimination
CrossKid [6d\]: these 2 players both have 1 loss in the tournament
CrossKid [6d\]: now there deciding the 2nd pro the first pro is andy liu
]RE[W+Resign]
;B[pd]C[Mef [-\]: Also worth noting - it's a best of 3 
CrossKid [6d\]: yep its 1-0 right now GanShengShi won yesterdays game
CrossKid [6d\]: so if he wins this match GanShengShi will be the 2nd pro 
Vizsla [2d\]: what? i saw that game here, and andy died?
CrossKid [6d\]: maybe you mistook the colors and players?
Mef [-\]: Gan beat Andy in 1 of 3 games
Vizsla [2d\]: ah
Mef [-\]: Andy won the other 2
Vizsla [2d\]: i see
]
;W[dp]
;B[pq]
;W[dd]
;B[qk]C[mathlover [2d\]: common open
]
;W[mq]C[Insidius [1k\]: So Andy Liu is now a professionnal go player or just exhibition pro?
WoolyMaCha [4k\]: Are both of them from Canada?
Griffin2 [6k\]: Will there be another Pro tournament next year?
Insidius [1k\]: no andy live in new york
CrossKid [6d\]: hes a proffesional now but he doesnt officially become a pro till the 31st
]
;B[po]
;W[jq]C[WoolyMaCha [4k\]: Andy is now the 1st AGA-Tygem Pro.
CrossKid [6d\]: GanSheng Shi is from the u.s and Jianing Gan is from canada
Insidius [1k\]: nice gratz to him and the winner here :P
Warfreak2 [4d\]: hkkyeen is awsome
WoolyMaCha [4k\]: as posted in the AGA-Tygem info page
]
;B[cn]
;W[fp]C[WoolyMaCha [4k\]: thx, CrossKid
CrossKid [6d\]: No problem 
]
;B[bp]C[CrossKid [6d\]: Hm I hope Jianing Gan becomes the 2nd pro yesterdays game was pretty close 
CrossKid [6d\]: 2.5.... must of been hard to swallow that loss
]
;W[cm]C[Minjhou [10k\]: c7
Minjhou [10k\]: ?
WoolyMaCha [4k\]: yeah, I hope Gan wins too, so Canada has 1 and the USA has 1
CrossKid [6d\]: Its joseki minjhou
Insidius [1k\]: I had the chance to see Andy Liu, Jianing Gan and GanSheng Shi play in the canadian open this summer 
Insidius [1k\]: nice to see they are rewarded for there hard work
]
;B[dm]
;W[cl]C[CrossKid [6d\]: Thats the way I was thinking WoolyMaCha :) also Jianing Gan is a friend of mine
]
;B[dl]C[shenzhen [4d\]: hey zyoda! we are all sad we can't support you in this tournie :-( We love you!
CrossKid [6d\]: I figured it would be a good push off for canada and the u.s
WoolyMaCha [4k\]: nice, CrossKid, Gan is from Vancouver?
]
;W[bn]C[Griffin2 [6k\]: How do you guys think the AGA-Tygem pros will do against the other pros in the world?
shenzhen [4d\]: hopefully 1 win in the year :)
]
;B[co]
;W[ck]
;B[cq]
;W[dq]
;B[bo]C[WoolyMaCha [4k\]: hard to say, Griffin, so many pros at diff strengths
]
;W[di]C[CrossKid [6d\]: I am not sure its more to say hes a friend online and not a friend I know in real :)
RapyutaF [1k\]: wooo second pro,, i bet on white
WoolyMaCha [4k\]: but Andy can face any 1p for sure
CrossKid [6d\]: Hm I think andy will do well with the pros
]
;B[nc]C[RapyutaF [1k\]: Andy the best~
CrossKid [6d\]: GanSheng Shi beat jackjin 2p (smartrobot) on the first was a very good game
]
;W[re]C[CrossKid [6d\]: so maybe he will do well with the pros too
CBlue [?\]: gansheng seems 2nd strongest after andy liu so far, right
]
;B[rd]C[CrossKid [6d\]: Hm.... I think billlin is stronger (personally)
Griffin2 [6k\]: I wonder if the AGA-Tygem will be allowed to compete in the Honinbo, and other tournaments
CrossKid [6d\]: even though he got knocked out quickly i think he was just nervous 
]
;W[qe]C[Mef [-\]: Honinbo is Japanese, so highly unlikely (=
Vizsla [2d\]: to enter japanese tournaments you must be a pro by the nihon ki in
Tesuckji [?\]: they are korean.. so not honinbo..
ivank [3k\]: who is korean?
Tesuckji [?\]: koreans are sponsoring i meant... and helping by letting them play in tournaments
Mef [-\]: Kuksu, etc   but if they are only in korea for a year it would be tough (impossible?) to work your way up to a high level event
Tesuckji [?\]: still get to play strong players in the prelims
WoolyMaCha [4k\]: they are reconized by the Korean Baduk club, so they can play in big tournys like the LG cup, NongShim cup....
]
;B[qd]
;W[qi]C[Tesuckji [?\]: if they qualify ^^
WoolyMaCha [4k\]: yes, tough
]
;B[pg]
;W[qg]C[WoolyMaCha [4k\]: recognized*
Vizsla [2d\]: do they plan to run this series every year? it seems theyll run out of truly strong players in very few years
]
;B[ph]
;W[qh]C[Mef [-\]: I believe the hope is that the league will encourage competition and enable North American to generate more truly strong players
]
;B[fc]
;W[cf]C[WoolyMaCha [4k\]: there are lots of talents in N America, problems is it takes time and hard work
]
;B[id]C[Insidius [1k\]: Does that mean that Andy Liu and the winner of this game won't be able to participate in the tournament next year?
Warfreak2 [4d\]: why would they want to? they'll already be pro
WoolyMaCha [4k\]: and many of these people have a regular job and family
Griffin2 [6k\]: will Andy Liu get a 1p on his KGS account?
Warfreak2 [4d\]: he will if he wants it
Warfreak2 [4d\]: maybe he will create a new account to take his 1p rank on
Uberdude [4d?\]: how old is gansheng?
Ukasuhs [5d?\]: 18? i think
ivank [3k\]: is r7 possible? 
Vizsla [2d\]: are p ranks awarded to fictional names? most p accounts i remember in kgs were real names
Uizado [-\]: like breakfast
Griffin2 [6k\]: well breakfast is a 3p
Warfreak2 [4d\]: farmboy
Uizado [-\]: p ranks are awarded to p ranked players
]
;W[ke]C[Warfreak2 [4d\]: breakfast is his real name... alexander dinnertime
bobstep [6k\]: redrose
Insidius [1k\]: Well you have the title of pro so why hide with a id?
Insidius [1k\]: But it's up to him :P
Warfreak2 [4d\]: what do you mean hide
Uizado [-\]: taking on 
Uizado [-\]: argh
Uizado [-\]: ignore my random pushing of the enter key =)
Warfreak2 [4d\]: take on me
Vizsla [2d\]: in a day or twooo
Uizado [-\]: take me on
Warfreak2 [4d\]: i'll be gone
Uberdude [4d?\]: guo juan said r13 bad in recent lecture
Uberdude [4d?\]: should p11
Uberdude [4d?\]: but then i've seen inseong do r13
xxxxxxxxx [4d\]: alexander dinnertime
xxxxxxxxx [4d\]: good joke
calgacus [1d?\]: I love moves like l15
Vizsla [2d\]: moves i never come up with
calgacus [1d?\]: MAybe b is thinking of k14
RapyutaF [1k\]: @uberdude maybe white is solid type? base first then invade?
Uberdude [4d?\]: if you see pro games with this sahape (very comon with chinese opening recently) they jump out
]
;B[pe]C[RapyutaF [1k\]: yes
Uberdude [4d?\]: b so thick here
Uberdude [4d?\]: w 2 groups a problem
Uberdude [4d?\]: if w s9 i tihnk b will s10
calgacus [1d?\]: Oh good, I thought of this move too.
calgacus [1d?\]: Thick,
rsun [4d\]: l17
RapyutaF [1k\]: O_O
rlaalswo [1k\]: h4
idareyou [5k\]: B is better than W :|
]
;W[kc]
;B[jc]
;W[mc]C[calgacus [1d?\]: shinogi, lovely.
]
;B[nd]
;W[nb]C[Vizsla [2d\]: i prefer sega's shinobi
]
;B[ob]
;W[jb]
;B[ib]
;W[lb]C[Vizsla [2d\]: volkswagen
]
;B[ja]C[Vizsla [2d\]: b break the logo
rsun [4d\]: actually what's the point of the exhibition league when everyone is watching the pro match
shenzhen [4d\]: i have no idea...
Mef [-\]: not everyone is watching the pro match, and I believe there is a cash prize for the exhibition league
shenzhen [4d\]: ah ok, thats the answer then, money :-)
]
;W[jf]C[Vizsla [2d\]: is this the proper time for h3? is h3 a good move at all?
]
;B[db]
;W[cc]C[bobstep [6k\]: plus I think it affects seeding for next year
calgacus [1d?\]: h14?
Uberdude [4d?\]: s10 ?
Insidius [1k\]: which one has a better position? 
calgacus [1d?\]: s10 now, why not.
calgacus [1d?\]: w invested more stones at the top than i expected
Vizsla [2d\]: q9 is elegant
ligo [4k\]: o19
]
;B[hf]C[ThiGar [3k\]: good call calgacus!
calgacus [1d?\]: keeps w globally separated
calgacus [1d?\]: a must
calgacus [1d?\]: just the timing of it
calgacus [1d?\]: imho
ThiGar [3k\]: thx too for the footnote
Vizsla [2d\]: w can maybe tenuki
calgacus [1d?\]: b brewing up a splitting attack, lovely
PS157 [10k\]: the winner will be a Pro?
]
;W[pi]C[PS157 [10k\]: Pro Exam ?
Firebird [3k\]: pro tournament
]
;B[nh]
;W[jh]C[bobstep [6k\]: seems odd, 4 chinese players fighting it out to go s korea
Firebird [3k\]: ... as players for the USA
Mef [-\]:  and Canada
shenzhen [4d\]: w will be pro if he wins
bobstep [6k\]: or canada
shenzhen [4d\]: b needs to win twice
WoolyMaCha [4k\]: maybe Chinese origin but citizenships are not
bobstep [6k\]: yes, I know wooly
Insidius [1k\]: attack bottom? or too early?
]
;B[kb]C[calgacus [1d?\]: i want  b to play k4
Warfreak2 [4d\]: why
Insidius [1k\]: too attack maybe h3 or h4?
calgacus [1d?\]: " Rumblng in the East"
Warfreak2 [4d\]: you can attach at g4 or j3 here
Insidius [1k\]: ohh ok
Insidius [1k\]: maybe better at j3 than g4 i think
calgacus [1d?\]: I don't want w to get thickness
]
;W[ni]
;B[mi]
;W[nj]
;B[pl]
;W[mh]C[Uberdude [4d?\]: seems b failed here
Uberdude [4d?\]: he ignored l15 but didn't attack w on right
globax [3d\]: l4?
Uberdude [4d?\]: d18 seems bad if you are going to l18
calgacus [1d?\]: Suddenly I don't like b's position
Uberdude [4d?\]: rather 3-3 now
globax [3d\]: yep
Uberdude [4d?\]: pretty basic error for a 7d
Uberdude [4d?\]: probably he changed his mind
]
;B[ng]
;W[lh]C[globax [3d\]: or questio of sente
calgacus [1d?\]: ladder stragey
calgacus [1d?\]: declined
]
;B[ki]C[Vizsla [2d\]: he didnt want no ladders with the h3 area so hot
]
;W[kh]C[calgacus [1d?\]: this seem rubbish for b
Vizsla [2d\]: it is
]
;B[gp]C[calgacus [1d?\]: And this seeems to late, after the position in the centre is clarified
]
;W[gq]C[calgacus [1d?\]: w knows how to react
]
;B[hq]C[WhiteRawr [6d\]: the timing is ok
Susaku [-\]: e3 e2 e4 f3 e5 h2 ?
Susaku [-\]: w bwbwbw
Susaku [-\]: bwbwbw my bad
USGO1 [-\]: *** Live commentary will be provided for this match on the Korea 1 server on TYGEMGO starting at 10:30am EDT. http://www.tygembaduk.com/
]
;W[go]
;B[hp]
;W[ho]
;B[fq]
;W[gr]
;B[fo]
;W[ep]C[evanj [3d\]: now what 
WhiteRawr [6d\]: j4 only move
acn [1d\]: H2 first, then J4 ok?
WhiteRawr [6d\]: don't play h2
Tetriste [-\]: heya
acn [1d\]: please explain?
Vizsla [2d\]: i dont see the game at korea1, what should i look for
]
;B[kq]C[globax [3d\]: h2 enough for w ?
WhiteRawr [6d\]: w will j4
WhiteRawr [6d\]: or l4
hikarugo [1d\]: your looking glasses
ThiGar [3k\]: does following korea 1 requires registering an account?
Rochedale [7k\]: Vizsla, I think the game commentary will start in Korea in 10 minutes or so.  
Rochedale [7k\]: The actually game is probably on the AGA server.
Vizsla [2d\]: ah
Rochedale [7k\]: The 'actual game', that is.
Vizsla [2d\]: lol
ThiGar [3k\]: h3 stones sacrifice stones?
Rochedale [7k\]: Need my coffee. . .
Vizsla [2d\]: the relay there is upside down
RedLightGo [2k\]: l4  ?
RedLightGo [2k\]: works good with white's l12  influence.
]
;W[ip]C[WhiteRawr [6d\]: j4 is honte
RedLightGo [2k\]: Ah true.. i see
]
;B[kp]C[Tetriste [-\]: l2?
acn [1d\]: trade is not bad for b?
tigergong [5d\]: GOOD CHANCE FOR W
Vizsla [2d\]: surely w will n5
]
;W[mo]
;B[kn]C[tigergong [5d\]: w leading game now
]
;W[jo]
;B[ko]
;W[mm]C[Vorador [-\]: w won the first game aswellright?
]
;B[lr]C[ThiGar [3k\]: so it seems h3 hane after g4 did not work too well
bobstep [6k\]: this is first game, but w only needs to win one game, b 2
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: both players are making some really groovy moves haha
bobstep [6k\]: I think
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: White had a trippy opening thing
Vizsla [2d\]: if a move is at fault for b's result, surely its not the h3 hane
]
;W[jr]
;B[no]C[tigergong [5d\]: what 's happen if w win this game?
ThiGar [3k\]: ok, what explains b's result?
tigergong [5d\]: he will be a pro?
WhiteRawr [6d\]: strong
shenzhen [4d\]: the world ends
Nilatarion [3d\]: yes
RedLightGo [2k\]: o6 
acn [1d\]: w is us go professional
RedLightGo [2k\]: o4  maybe
]
;W[nn]
;B[np]
;W[mp]
;B[ll]C[Tesuckji [?\]: pressure
shenzhen [4d\]: b trying to go for a giant kill?
tigergong [5d\]: wrong move again for b
shenzhen [4d\]: seems impossible...
acn [1d\]: tigergong, what's the right move for b then?
]
;W[lm]C[tigergong [5d\]: i dont know
]
;B[km]
;W[kl]C[RedLightGo [2k\]: ....\]
tigergong [5d\]: at least this is wrong
RedLightGo [2k\]: you dont know? lol
WhiteRawr [6d\]: yea
]
;B[jl]
;W[kk]
;B[nr]C[RedLightGo [2k\]: this was good for white... owch.
]
;W[om]
;B[pm]
;W[mr]
;B[ms]
;W[nq]
;B[oq]
;W[kr]
;B[lq]C[RedLightGo [2k\]: dosnt that waste a ko threat?
]
;W[rj]C[calgacus [1d?\]: c18 commonly believed to be about 23 points i understand
shenzhen [4d\]: game almost over before myungwan starts
Insidius [1k\]: white will win i think, good position if not :P
]
;B[jk]
;W[kj]
;B[jj]
;W[ji]C[shenzhen [4d\]: feels like w already win to me
Insidius [1k\]: yeah
globax [3d\]: c18 big
calgacus [1d?\]: Made 10 points connecting 2 weak groups
shenzhen [4d\]: all his possible weak groups joined together with territory
]
;B[cb]C[Vizsla [2d\]: i just bet 200k for gan in tygem xD, that is a cool feature
globax [3d\]: :)
]
;W[rl]
;B[rk]C[Insidius [1k\]: black if wants to maybe win will have to do something in w's territory in left
]
;W[qp]C[RedLightGo [2k\]: not too much black can do there honestly
shenzhen [4d\]: ugh the game is upside down on tygem, painful :(
WhiteRawr [6d\]: b is not desperately behind
WhiteRawr [6d\]: he has a shot
Vizsla [2d\]: well shen, they must think the same of our game here
trash: r4!!
acn [1d\]: what's target for the shot?
trash: w wins now , no?
RedLightGo [2k\]: if black ignores this..
trash: r4 so nice
]
;B[qo]C[RedLightGo [2k\]: p2 o1 p4 p5 q4 
shenzhen [4d\]: p2 o1 r3 q2 s5 s6 t6 ko
]
;W[sk]C[trash: i dont get your p2
]
;B[rn]
;W[oa]
;B[pa]
;W[ma]C[evanj [3d\]: p2 o1 r3 r2, no?
]
;B[na]
;W[or]
;B[ns]
;W[oa]C[RedLightGo [2k\]: i think white has more threats
trash: r3
shenzhen [4d\]: i was just copying myungwans sequence so i guess it has no errors:p
evanj [3d\]: haha
evanj [3d\]: ok
Tetriste [-\]: I don't think b should fight this ko
]
;B[nk]C[acn [1d\]: me neither
]
;W[mk]
;B[na]
;W[bm]
;B[cr]
;W[dr]C[trash: n18
]
;B[en]
;W[oa]
;B[in]
;W[io]
;B[na]
;W[bb]C[shenzhen [4d\]: w is just fake fighting it :)
shenzhen [4d\]: too easy for w
Tetriste [-\]: b gotta try something
]
;B[cg]C[Warfreak2 [4d\]: idgi
Warfreak2 [4d\]: just d14?
ThiGar [3k\]: c13 can turn things over
RedLightGo [2k\]: d14 b16 b17 b14 ?
acn [1d\]: what does it mean to become a usa go pro?
evanj [3d\]: that remains to be seen
RedLightGo [2k\]: it means ur as strong as these guys atleast.
evanj [3d\]: apparently it means they will be able to compete in pro tournaments in korea?
Mef [-\]: It means you will go to korea for a year to play in pro tournaments
palapiku [-\]: and win them all
evanj [3d\]: and then when they lose all their games in humiliating fashion, what happens then
WhiteRawr [6d\]: they keep playing
RedLightGo [2k\]: They train some more.
Koyou [-\]: don't you mean "if"?
evanj [3d\]: no
Vizsla [2d\]: and probably way easier to sell your services to impresionable amateurs with a p besides your name
WhiteRawr [6d\]: but yea, it'll be a lesson in self-humility
evanj [3d\]: i most assuredly do not mean "if"
WhiteRawr [6d\]: lol
WoolyMaCha [4k\]: after that, they help to spread Go in N America, get better fees for teaching, etc
RapyutaF [1k\]: d13 d14 d15 d12 e14 e13 ?
Koyou [-\]: lol,  do you really think that they will be humiliated with a loss against korean pros?
bobstep [6k\]: nonetheless, they will learn a lot
Illyria [?\]: if andy loses all his games, I'll be pretty surprised
evanj [3d\]: i guess these guys are the sacrificial lambs so that in 20 years north america might have a real professional presence
evanj [3d\]: i won't be surprised at all
WhiteRawr [6d\]: andy will get trashed
Mef [-\]: Training as a professional for a year will almost certainly make them stronger, even if they post a lackluster win/loss ratio
RedLightGo [2k\]: pretty much evanj lol
RedLightGo [2k\]: someone had to do it.
Vizsla [2d\]: i think it takes a strong public interest to mantain a good pro system, that seems to be lacking
Koyou [-\]: I find it interesting how us amateurs can predict what will happen to the US pros.
Illyria [?\]: I never said I expected andy to do well, I just don't think he'll lose all his games
Mef [-\]: From what I gather, the KBA is more or less modelling this after what Japan did for them
GibbonGO [1k\]: how about E13 ?
Vizsla [2d\]: but the scenarios are totally different
rsun [4d\]: what did Japan do?
acn [1d\]: maybe in 20 years, usa will have strongest go player in the world..
Mef [-\]: bring over a handful of strong players....train them, let them compete....send some of them back to korea to teach more
GibbonGO [1k\]: E13 lets black believe he could make it, but ...
acn [1d\]: maybe in 10 years or less..
Warfreak2 [4d\]: don't see anything working after w d14
Vizsla [2d\]: 20 years is extremely optimistic, 10 is plain crazy
palapiku [-\]: the strongest player in 10 years will be a bot anywaya
Vizsla [2d\]: well, yes
RedLightGo [2k\]: the usa will have 9p within the next few years imo.
evanj [3d\]: but that bot will be an aga pro
evanj [3d\]: not a chance, rlg
evanj [3d\]: not a chance
Warfreak2 [4d\]: not 10 years, maybe 20
RedLightGo [2k\]: why?
WoolyMaCha [4k\]: Anyway, having more N American Pros is good for Go in N America
rsun [4d\]: the next goal is to establish pro system in afghanistan
RedLightGo [2k\]: There is no reason why the US cant have a 9p
Tetriste [-\]: it can't be bad :P
Koyou [-\]: It's not impossible, it's just unlikely
Tetriste [-\]: Michael Redmond achieved 9p
]
;W[df]C[GibbonGO [1k\]: yes D14 seems to do the trick ...
WWWWWWWWWW [?\]: im back
Vizsla [2d\]: pretty much anyone achieved 9p in the old days
RedLightGo [2k\]: micheal redmond is pretty much japanese though isnt he?
Koyou [-\]: but he was in Japan almost the entire time,  special case tehre
Vizsla [2d\]: now you have to win stuff
Koyou [-\]: there*
Tetriste [-\]: he's american, it's just that now he lives in Japan
RedLightGo [2k\]: but none the less, any strong amature in the US has the potential to be a pro.
]
;B[ld]C[evanj [3d\]: the reason the US can't have a 9p is that there is nobody anywhere near strong enough to become 9p in the US
evanj [3d\]: seems like a good reason to me
]
;W[kd]C[Mef [-\]: there are people with the potential though, if given the right environment...
]
;B[lc]C[Tetriste [-\]: well as I said, it has been done by an american, I don't see why it should be the case always
RedLightGo [2k\]: You're telling me you know every strong amature in the US evanj?
Tetriste [-\]: I mean
Vizsla [2d\]: i want a mexican 9p mariachi
Koyou [-\]: evan can you not read?  Indeed, he did said "a few years"
GibbonGO [1k\]: m14 before this !
Tetriste [-\]: ''I'm not an asian so I can't be 9p'' what kind of stupid thing that is
ThiGar [3k\]: It's already so hard to spread Go around, that this pro initiative is really welcome. Even in Asia, Japan recognized the role of the Hikaru manga to boost close-to-forgotten Go in the young generations.
evanj [3d\]: with all due respect i'm not sure you understand how strong 9ps are
Vizsla [2d\]: you cant be 9p unless you are rised in the right enviroment, amongst strong professionals, full time, that cant happen in the us for at least 30 years
Tetriste [-\]: hikaru was a genius thing for spreading go
evanj [3d\]: if there were an amateur strong enough to be 9p in the US we'd all know about it
]
;W[eb]C[Koyou [-\]: with all due respect, I'm not sure YOU understand how strong 9ps are
Tesuckji [?\]: ... lol
RedLightGo [2k\]: lol, you guys are both pros so im sure you would know.
calgacus [1d?\]: Yose tesuji
rsun [4d\]: andy beat feng 9p
GibbonGO [1k\]: it seems they are issuing a book this way together :-)
acn [1d\]: strong 9p is a human being, just as strong as you and me are
]
;B[ec]
;W[dc]
;B[fb]C[Tesuckji [?\]: seriously guys?
Tetriste [-\]: lol with all due respect, I've watched them play many times, I'm just saying that being an asian has nothing to do with it. It's in their culture is all. It is illogical to believe it's something that can't happen elsewhere
Vizsla [2d\]: by 9p i mean title runner ups at least, the kind that win stuff, not the old japanese fella who achieve 9p by his sixties
bubba [4d\]: well said, Tetriste
Warfreak2 [4d\]: aguilar beat two 9ps
Tesuckji [?\]: with all due respect your annoying, non of you are 9ps and who cares who beat who, watch the game 
Koyou [-\]: Thank you Tesuckji
Tetriste [-\]: lol I'll annoy you as much as I want, if you don't like it just censor me
Narayana [2k?\]: done
Koyou [-\]: Tetriste....you made a good point just now, why ruin it?
bert [3d\]: to achieve 9p in ones sixties is quite a feat by itself
Warfreak2 [4d\]: to achieve 9p in the sixties, otoh
evanj [3d\]: it can't happen in the US becasue the infrastructure does not exist to train these people from a sufficiently young age
Tetriste [-\]: because that's a good point too, why should I care if talking truth annoys someone
evanj [3d\]: that's all
evanj [3d\]: i can't believe this is a controversial statement
GibbonGO [1k\]: the human brain is a universal phenomenon !
Vizsla [2d\]: americans like to think they can be best at everything
]
;W[md]
;B[le]
;W[me]
;B[lf]
;W[mf]
;B[mb]C[evanj [3d\]: it has nothing to do with brains
Narayana [2k?\]: getting spicy
RedLightGo [2k\]: Lol, well... it's going to be a while before there is a US go pro who is considered "the best."
Koyou [-\]: 1. you're amateur 3d,  you can't possible know what a professional world is like, and 2. pretty sure you can't predict the future,  you're not psychic.
GibbonGO [1k\]: it has a LOT to do with it
Koyou [-\]: You made this controversial
evanj [3d\]: i'm amateur 5d thank you very much
GreedKills [2k\]: how come south americans were not allowed to join i wonder
Koyou [-\]: Doesn't change the statement
rsun [4d\]: because cuba's a part of it
RedLightGo [2k\]: That might not happen for a long long time. Just because we arn't going to be able to produce enough pros quick enough.
Mef [-\]: I don't think any showed up at the qualifiers
GreedKills [2k\]: oh
Vizsla [2d\]: the only one with near enought skill would be aguilar, and hes probably too old 
ThiGar [3k\]: Why want to equal asian pros? A pro league in N America, at its own lowly level for a few decades, would be great in its own right. 
evanj [3d\]: if there is an American born, raised and trained 9p in the next decade i will buy you a sandwich of your choice.
WhiteRawr [6d\]: you needed canadian or american citizenship
]
;W[mg]C[Koyou [-\]: Just making you look stupid is enough
]
;B[la]C[GreedKills [2k\]: wat
acn [1d\]: whiterawr, why dont' you play in this tournament? 
Tetriste [-\]: if you're still playing go in a decade I'll buy you a sandwich
]
;W[do]
;B[dn]C[Warfreak2 [4d\]: the only person making anyone look stupid right now is you and yourself
evanj [3d\]: i'm not sure why you're being so hostile
WhiteRawr [6d\]: ? why would he stops playing go?
]
;W[cs]
;B[bs]
;W[ds]C[GreedKills [2k\]: um we already have an american born and raised who is 9p
Mef [-\]: Maybe we should all just meet up at the 2022 go congress and order one of those big party sandwiches we can all split
evanj [3d\]: not trained, greedkills
rsun [4d\]: I lost track, what are you guys arguing about again?
KemoClaw [1k\]: michael redmond, anyone?
vijay [?\]: redmond
Tetriste [-\]: because he doesn't believe in getting stronger
RedLightGo [2k\]: i think the average rate of becoming 9p after getting 1p is about 10 years.
WhiteRawr [6d\]: i was afraid of winning
evanj [3d\]: i'm not sure, i think koyou wants a sandwich
Warfreak2 [4d\]: or a pony
base [-\]: what about michael richmond, what's his rank?
]
;B[dj]C[GreedKills [2k\]: 9p
Tetriste [-\]: 9p
evanj [3d\]: michael redmond is 9p but was trained in japan in the japanese system
rsun [4d\]: richmond is not a go player
Koyou [-\]: Not, I actually kind of want you to stop speaking nonsense
RedLightGo [2k\]: michael redmond you mean?
]
;W[ci]C[RedLightGo [2k\]: or was it richmond? im confused. lol
base [-\]: yeah sorry
evanj [3d\]: i don't know why koyou is finding this so upsetting
WoolyMaCha [4k\]: Hey folks, you have to understand this: it took lots of hard work for AGA-Tygem, KBA , Myung Wan 9p and others to get this North America pro games going...
evanj [3d\]: but i'll stop talking about it now 
]
;B[ba]
;W[ab]C[Narayana [2k?\]: now now childern calm down
rlaalswo [1k\]: i think AGA pros will compete only in the Korean tournaments since there're little more than ten..
Vizsla [2d\]: i must reiterate that in the old japanese system, 9p wasnt actually a measure of great skill, it could be reached by mere perseveration
rlaalswo [1k\]: for few years
evanj [3d\]: oh, i think the AGA pro system is great. i just don't think it will generate top quality pros for quite a while
evanj [3d\]: which is fine, and to be expected
evanj [3d\]: and NOW i will stop talking about it
bobstep [6k\]: I know people will hate this analogy, but it is similar to the situation in chess, russians always much stronger on the whole, but the bobby fischers do happen
Vitharr [1d\]: g6 is big ?
bobstep [6k\]: .
Vitharr [1d\]: (for b i mean)
rsun [4d\]: g6 has some shape problem
WoolyMaCha [4k\]:  So for South America or other places, that would take time, effort and opportunity.
Vizsla [2d\]: but fischer renounced to american citizenship didnt he? he was paranoid or something
Ukasuhs [5d?\]: bobstep, use go seigen instead of fisher
ErgoProxy [5d\]: so who is becoming pro after this tournament?
bobstep [6k\]: almost all world chess champs have been nuts
Tesuckji [?\]: the winner of this game and andy
rsun [4d\]: the name contains Gan, that's for sure
Tetriste [-\]: I'll renounce to canadian citizenship if that can make me 9p 0.o
Warfreak2 [4d\]: not the winner of this game
ErgoProxy [5d\]: Andy already became pro?
evanj [3d\]: and -ng
]
;B[nl]
;W[ml]C[RapyutaF [1k\]: yes
ThiGar [3k\]: Ibest in chess: Anand-indian, Carlsen-norwegian, etc
evanj [3d\]: yes, ergo
Warfreak2 [4d\]: if gansheng wins then he's pro, if jianing wins then they play again
evanj [3d\]: andy liu will be officially 1p on september 1, i believe
WoolyMaCha [4k\]: Ergo, Andy is already the 1st AGA-Tygem pro
Warfreak2 [4d\]: it's best of 3, gansheng won first round
Tetriste [-\]: untill gansheng wins and becomes a pro
drivenrain [-\]: second game if needed is later today ?
]
;B[ei]C[ErgoProxy [5d\]: okay, thx for your answers
Warfreak2 [4d\]: yes
]
;W[dk]C[Vizsla [2d\]: is there a pro system in taiwan?
rlaalswo [1k\]: yes
rsun [4d\]: 100% of US pros are chinese
Warfreak2 [4d\]: yes
GreedKills [2k\]: yes
GreedKills [2k\]: james kerwin?
Ukasuhs [5d?\]: michael redmond
GreedKills [2k\]: did he become pro in china?
]
;B[dh]C[evanj [3d\]: redmond is japanese pro
Ukasuhs [5d?\]: lol
evanj [3d\]: liu is american pro
KemoClaw [1k\]: anyone knows if there'll be an ooteai or any other define means for them to increase in dan level?
mdf116 [6d\]: no westerner has become pro in china
Ukasuhs [5d?\]: any is american
]
;W[ch]C[Ukasuhs [5d?\]: andy*
Mef [-\]: Kemo - I would guess they will use the Korean promotion system
rlaalswo [1k\]: his parents are chinese
mdf116 [6d\]: he was born in china
evanj [3d\]: he is an american citizen
ThiGar [3k\]: Breakfast is korean pro
Tetriste [-\]: he was born there? I thought he was born in the states
Vitharr [1d\]: what do you argue about the nationality of go players ? that don't change their skills you know ?
Vitharr [1d\]: *why
rlaalswo [1k\]: andy got trained by chinese pros
GreedKills [2k\]: yeah who cares
evanj [3d\]: it is of the utmost importance
Tetriste [-\]: that's exactly the point Vitharr
GreedKills [2k\]: nationality and race are of the utmost importance evanj????
Tetriste [-\]: of course, or so said the nazi
evanj [3d\]: clearly
evanj [3d\]: or people wouldn't keep talking about them
Vitharr [1d\]: so that wasnt sarcasm ? so sad then ...
GreedKills [2k\]: hmmm using racism to troll...cute
]
;B[dg]
;W[bg]
;B[ek]
;W[cj]
;B[ej]
;W[ef]C[viu30h [5k\]: people keep talking bout the unimportant things actually   the important stuff is often not thought about
rlaalswo [1k\]: chinese immigrants has much more opportunities on go
pliages [?\]: GanSheng and Jianing attack a lot no?
calgacus [1d?\]: w seems confortably ahead
]
;B[gn]C[RapyutaF [1k\]: is he?
evanj [3d\]: actually the question of citizenship is relevant to this tournament
CrossKid [6d\]: hm looks like jianing gan is doing well this game
RapyutaF [1k\]: SE b+38
evanj [3d\]: that's all
evanj [3d\]: people are in an awfully crabby mood this morning
CrossKid [6d\]: defenitly less than 38 
]
;W[hn]
;B[hm]
;W[im]
;B[hl]C[Narayana [2k?\]: grr @ evan ;)
]
;W[jn]C[rlaalswo [1k\]: morning in where?
]
;B[jm]C[drivenrain [-\]: the trolling doesnt help
]
;W[ks]
;B[ls]C[rlaalswo [1k\]: nighttime here..
evanj [3d\]: then you can probably figure out where it's morning
]
;W[pn]C[Tetriste [-\]: on the moon?
Narayana [2k?\]: yup
Vitharr [1d\]: isnt b t15 or w t16 sente ? 
rsun [4d\]: goedemiddag
Warfreak2 [4d\]: r14 is w's sente
shenzhen [4d\]: myungwan stopped commenting cos he says w has already won, thats good enough for me
]
;B[qn]C[CrossKid [6d\]: depends what you consider sente vitharr
]
;W[oo]C[GibbonGO [1k\]: I like the formation around G2
]
;B[op]C[Warfreak2 [4d\]: so top right corner is w's privilege
]
;W[on]C[RapyutaF [1k\]: this is weird
CrossKid [6d\]: black doesnt have to respond to t16 and white doesnt have to respond to t15
]
;B[rm]C[CrossKid [6d\]: since its not the biggest thing on the board
]
;W[sd]
;B[sc]
;W[se]
;B[rc]
;W[pf]
;B[of]C[evanj [3d\]: congrats gansheng
]
;W[qf]C[Vitharr [1d\]: mh, i thought it was quite big
]
;B[fg]
;W[hi]C[Vitharr [1d\]: maybe not the biggest then
CrossKid [6d\]: hmm well black disagrees with me :) 
rlaalswo [1k\]: will w+ lead to becomming a pro?
evanj [3d\]: yes
CrossKid [6d\]: you could be right
acn [1d\]: b J14
evanj [3d\]: w win = gansheng joins andy as first american 1ps
Vizsla [2d\]: how old is w?
CrossKid [6d\]: 17
]
;B[ne]C[CrossKid [6d\]: right now blacks ahead 
will122166 [1k\]: but hes behind
KurataSan [1d\]: נוא ומכםראומשאךקטת יק ןד מםא ךקשגןמעץ
]
;W[nf]
;B[og]C[KurataSan [1d\]: but unfortunetley, he is not leading
KurataSan [1d\]: i mean w
Vizsla [2d\]: i think w ahead, SE gets confused with aga scoring
shenzhen [4d\]: myungwan says w win, lets assume he counts better than us...
Tetriste [-\]: he's just 9p
Tetriste [-\]: weakling
shenzhen [4d\]: true, not even aga 9p, must be very weak
CrossKid [6d\]: haha well i guess we will have to wait till the end to see
rlaalswo [1k\]: are there more AGA pros than Gansheng and Andy qualified this year?
evanj [3d\]: no
]
;W[gj]C[Warfreak2 [4d\]: gansheng hasn't qualified yet
evanj [3d\]: 2 per year starting now
Warfreak2 [4d\]: don't count your chickens
rlaalswo [1k\]: warfreak:yeah if he wins
]
;B[hr]C[shenzhen [4d\]: 9p counted his chickens
]
;W[fr]C[WhiteRawr [6d\]: it is only 1 per year
WhiteRawr [6d\]: but 2 for the first year
]
;B[gk]C[evanj [3d\]: oh
evanj [3d\]: ok
CrossKid [6d\]: ah 
ligo [4k\]: b2
CrossKid [6d\]: sothey are changing it to 1
truman [3d\]: (that way they can play each other)
Tetriste [-\]: I think that's what I read too
CrossKid [6d\]: did you play in it whiterawr?
globax [3d\]: q9
WhiteRawr [6d\]: no
Tetriste [-\]: they can still change it though
rlaalswo [1k\]: think its a good idea to qualify few in a year
shenzhen [4d\]: so in 30 years they can have a sensible size tournie :)
]
;W[br]C[pliages [?\]: this is it b2
globax [3d\]: only ko
CrossKid [6d\]: really depends you also have to remember the size of the u.s and the canada dan list... :(
Koffein [-\]: and till then they can play in chinese and korean tournaments :-)
rlaalswo [1k\]: since pros don't easily be disqualified
]
;B[fe]
;W[ff]
;B[gf]
;W[kf]C[Tetriste [-\]: does that mean I'll become pro eventually?
truman [3d\]: There are lots of dan level players in the US/canada, not so many of them actually play in AGA tournaments
CrossKid [6d\]: I mean the ones with potential to be a pro :)
]
;B[hj]C[truman [3d\]: reaching those korean/chinese expats is the problem
Vizsla [2d\]: if w was going to answer  b19, shouldnt he had gotten c19 before? or it would have been ignored?
WhiteRawr [6d\]: ignored, yea
]
;W[gg]C[truman [3d\]: hell, back in college i met a couple korean kids who took the pro exam in Korea before moving here.
CrossKid [6d\]: Hm I dont expect the first generation of U.S pros to be korean or chinese or even japanese level so i dontfind that a problem
palapiku [-\]: if this tournament gets korean coverage, korean expats may learn about it that way
CrossKid [6d\]: but I do beleive in time we might catch up
rlaalswo [1k\]: maybe aga or kba wants young pros who can improve
Tetriste [-\]: I think andy will be japanese level
CrossKid [6d\]: Even korea and china started with weaker pros and japan had to help them and now there more powerful than japan
Tetriste [-\]: eventually
evanj [3d\]: why is nobody yelling at people for talking about this now :(
truman [3d\]: if people have a path to financially support themselves playing go, the strength will come
]
;B[gi]C[shenzhen [4d\]: cos everyone hates you evanj :p
GreedKills [2k\]: yes
evanj [3d\]: i guess so
Caode [16k\]: hm, theres the matter of population size..
rlaalswo [1k\]: sad for japan
anicca [2d\]: b better end game?
]
;W[eh]
;B[fh]
;W[eg]
;B[hh]C[CrossKid [6d\]: i think you need more than money to become strong
shenzhen [4d\]: w does seem to have go a bit slack, maybe just my weak eyes not understanding though
]
;W[ig]
;B[hg]C[GibbonGO [1k\]: great yose work by black !
]
;W[bq]
;B[cp]
;W[aq]C[globax [3d\]: q9 now
]
;B[qj]
;W[ri]C[Tetriste [-\]: t7
Vitharr [1d\]: b k4
globax [3d\]: w q9 still working
]
;B[ql]C[fgfgaa: j11
]
;W[sl]C[Warfreak2 [4d\]: q9 q10 p9 p8 p10 r8
rlaalswo [1k\]: full moon up on my head......
]
;B[ii]C[RapyutaF [1k\]: b+10
]
;W[ol]C[CrossKid [6d\]: hmm im gonna haveto disagree with what myungwan said about white being ahead 
]
;B[ok]C[CrossKid [6d\]: I think black is ahead by about 5 points in the end
]
;W[oj]C[Vizsla [2d\]: has myun commented on the yose?
calgacus [1d?\]: W has lost quite a few points recently imo
gogonuts [5d\]: sure looks close to me
]
;B[sm]C[rlaalswo [1k\]: yes SE sais B+10
]
;W[sj]C[evanj [3d\]: SE is false
CrossKid [6d\]: Someone said myungwan said whites ahead
CrossKid [6d\]: SE sucks and is false
Warfreak2 [4d\]: w has a nice move at q4
Illyria [?\]: SE fails at AGA rules
gogonuts [5d\]: se can only do japanese rules
]
;B[pk]C[Vizsla [2d\]: yes, i mean, does he agree with w's yose or did w mess up on something
pliages [?\]: "se" is...?
CrossKid [6d\]: but regardless of SE i still think blackleads a bit
pliages [?\]: "se"?
CrossKid [6d\]: but we will have to wait and see:)
rlaalswo [1k\]: myungwan stopped the commentary cuz he thinks black can't win
]
;W[qq]C[shenzhen [4d\]: b seems to have got an awful lot around left centre area
Vitharr [1d\]: si is score est.
calgacus [1d?\]: b gained a lot in the centre
Vitharr [1d\]: *se
]
;B[pr]
;W[pp]C[pliages [?\]: who is "se"?
rlaalswo [1k\]: score estimate
Vizsla [2d\]: i cant count today, too hard hangover
Warfreak2 [4d\]: power semedori
evanj [3d\]: good yose
bobstep [6k\]: silly estimator
Tetriste [-\]: just s4?
WhiteRawr [6d\]: q9 was bad
]
;B[qr]C[WhiteRawr [6d\]: or not
Warfreak2 [4d\]: s4 r2 p1 s3
]
;W[rp]C[WhiteRawr [6d\]: ;-
GibbonGO [1k\]: that was the move for black
Tetriste [-\]: s3 t5 ;)
acn [1d\]: over
Warfreak2 [4d\]: then t2
Vitharr [1d\]: mh, looks bad for b
evanj [3d\]: what is "mh"?
CrossKid [6d\]: black is dead
shenzhen [4d\]: s5 now?
RapyutaF [1k\]: boom
rlaalswo [1k\]: blacks not playing, resigned?
Warfreak2 [4d\]: s5 now
acn [1d\]: r2 is bad
GibbonGO [1k\]: S4 was the move for b
CrossKid [6d\]: s5 t4
globax [3d\]: w+res
CrossKid [6d\]: q9 stones die
anicca [2d\]: r9 is dead
gogonuts [5d\]: wow
fgfgaa: t4t3
anicca [2d\]: hmm what a mistake
Vizsla [2d\]: phew, guess i will not lose my 200k tygem credits after all
MrZNF [5d\]: t3 not working
calgacus [1d?\]: damezumari in the corner
Caode [16k\]: that seemed magical.
Warfreak2 [4d\]: t5 now
Warfreak2 [4d\]: ?
globax [3d\]: q2 shoulde be s4
CrossKid [6d\]: hmm
MrZNF [5d\]: t5 t4 still
gogonuts [5d\]: without this b seemed safely ahead ...
Vitharr [1d\]: s5 doesnt work ?
Tetriste [-\]: s5 t4 t3 no?
shenzhen [4d\]: mm looks like gg...
MrZNF [5d\]: q8 dies
CrossKid [6d\]: s5 t4 t3 s2
Nilatarion [3d\]: shi pro in this style;p
shenzhen [4d\]: guess we never see if myungwan stopped prematurely :)
CrossKid [6d\]: doesnt work tetriste white will live or make seki
USGO1 [-\]: black resigns here
CrossKid [6d\]: or kill p9
GibbonGO [1k\]: t5 now
GreedKills [2k\]: how unfortunate
Warfreak2 [4d\]: power gansheng
Illyria [?\]: thanks USGO!
Warfreak2 [4d\]: match over then?
CrossKid [6d\]: t5 doesnt work either
USGO1 [-\]: GanSheng is now pro
Vizsla [2d\]: yay i won 40k
gnarf [1k\]: thx usgo
CrossKid [6d\]: t5 t4
GreedKills [2k\]: thank you usgo1
ErgoProxy [5d\]: Congratulations!
Vizsla [2d\]: i dont know what that credit is for tho
palapiku [-\]: thanks
GibbonGO [1k\]: t5 t4 t3
Tokedo [1k\]: thanks! Congrats to CanSheng
pliages [?\]: this championship is in US, but, where exactly? Somebody knows?
CrossKid [6d\]: than s2
shenzhen [4d\]: is he doing a happy dance for being pro?
Tetriste [-\]: Congrats GanSheng Shi!
CrossKid [6d\]: this will give white 1 eye gibbon
Uberdude [4d?\]: funny way to beomce pro
CrossKid [6d\]: and even if black could win the race he will lose q8 stones
Griffin2 [6k\]: Congratulations 
calgacus [1d?\]: hmmm 
pliages [?\]: so? someboby can tell me?
fgfgaa: this game was for being pro?
CrossKid [6d\]: yes
CrossKid [6d\]: the first u.s pro test
RedLightGo [2k\]: did black resign here?
CrossKid [6d\]: yes
CrossKid [6d\]: he could not live
Dumb [-\]: lol
Dumb [-\]: and here I was
fgfgaa: oh poor black
Dumb [-\]: waiting for black's move
Dumb [-\]: :D
gogonuts [5d\]: r2 lost it imo
Dumb [-\]: lol
Minjhou [10k\]: b t4?
rlaalswo [1k\]: if black not resign the byoyomi should be over
gogonuts [5d\]: s4 instead just barely works
Vizsla [2d\]: we will call this, the tetris tesuji
CrossKid [6d\]: o9 losingmove
WhiteRawr [6d\]: s3 makes seki
Ganymed [7k\]: Liu Zhi Yuan and Gan Sheng Shi are the first two AGA pros. :) Congrats!
Warfreak2 [4d\]: not seki
gogonuts [5d\]: r2 is the losing move
Warfreak2 [4d\]: b short of libs because of p2
gogonuts [5d\]: s4 works fine
CrossKid [6d\]: s4 didnt work
ThiGar [3k\]: bravo! fascinating tournament shown on kgs - games & stakes
Tetriste [-\]: what about t4
gogonuts [5d\]: how do you answer?
Warfreak2 [4d\]: s4 r2 p1 s3 t5 t2
CrossKid [6d\]: im gonna open it in another window ok?
gogonuts [5d\]: fine
shenzhen [4d\]: t7 is the culprit
shenzhen [4d\]: without that atari b got one more lib
pliages [?\]: It's a pro test in US, but where in US?Somebody can say it?
Tetriste [-\]: nvm t4 t5
ThiGar [3k\]: Black Mountain, North Carolina, pliages.
CrossKid [6d\]: nice game gratz to the 2 pros
vsai [2k\]: who beat andy
palapiku [-\]: ganymed, be consistent with chinese names - Liu Zhiyuan and Shi Gansheng
gogonuts [5d\]: so r10 was wrong?
GibbonGO [1k\]: its so bad black looses due to his blunder r2 :-(
gogonuts [5d\]: it wasnt r2
gogonuts [5d\]: my mistake
gogonuts [5d\]: s4 r2 p1 s3 t5 t2 
globax [3d\]: q2
GibbonGO [1k\]: R2 WAS the blunder it should've been S4
gogonuts [5d\]: no
gogonuts [5d\]: thats what i thought too
wolokom [4k\]: b ded
gogonuts [5d\]: but its not so
RedLightGo [2k\]: r8 group is dead.
palapiku [-\]: b dëd
globax [3d\]: thx usgo01
gogonuts [5d\]: r10 lost a good lib
Javaness [3d\]: pro level
pliages [?\]: ok thiGar
gogonuts [5d\]: even for these guys it was hard to see that r10 was a nono
GibbonGO [1k\]: the only sente of whit would've been R2 thats all
ErgoProxy [5d\]: damn, if b just defends the cut there he wins by 2,5 points
ErgoProxy [5d\]: must suck to be black right now
SolidWork [1k\]: s4?
CheynneGO [21k?\]: thanks to USGO1 -
gogonuts [5d\]: s4 instead of r2 does *not* work
GibbonGO [1k\]: gogonuts could you explain your view ?
gogonuts [5d\]: s4 r2 p1 s3 t5 t3 
gogonuts [5d\]: ko also too terrible
SolidWork [1k\]: r2???
gogonuts [5d\]: and if t4 instead of t5 t5 works for b
])
