(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[AGA]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[5400]OT[5x60 byo-yomi]
GN[1st AGA-TYGEMGO Pro Finals - 5B]PW[Hugh Zhang]PB[Jianing Gan]WR[6d]BR[7d]DT[2012-08-01]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]SO[Tygem Baduk]US[Richard Crandall / Allan Abramson]RE[B+11.50]
;B[pd]
;W[dd]
;B[pq]
;W[po]
;B[qo]
;W[qn]
;B[qp]
;W[dp]
;B[fq]
;W[nc]
;B[qf]
;W[pm]
;B[nq]
;W[qi]
;B[cn]
;W[eo]
;B[cq]C[death101 [3k?\]: hmm questionable joseki choice.
]
;W[dm]
;B[dq]
;W[cm]
;B[lc]
;W[jc]
;B[cf]
;W[dh]
;B[cc]C[StonesurfR [-\]: these are being played on tygem?
]
;W[dc]
;B[cd]
;W[de]
;B[cb]
;W[df]
;B[cg]C[death101 [3k?\]: yes
]
;W[dg]C[Mef [-\]: They are being played live in North Carolina, relayed on Tygem and here
]
;B[kd]
;W[jd]
;B[kf]
;W[je]
;B[ke]C[StonesurfR [-\]: thanks.  is there a page that delineates all the requirements to pass as a new U.S pro?
blurb1: 1 is that u become member year before so hurry^^
trousey [17k\]: How many people can pass this exam?
trousey [17k\]: Hello
]
;W[qc]
;B[pc]
;W[pb]
;B[ob]
;W[qb]
;B[oc]
;W[re]
;B[qe]
;W[rf]
;B[jf]C[Tokedo [1k\]: 2 pro per year
trousey [17k\]: Thanks and no age limit?
Tokedo [1k\]: no age limit
]
;W[qg]
;B[pg]
;W[qd]C[svartrev [5k\]: Is the Korean Go associations "sponsoring" the certification in any way, i.e. insuring the quality of the certification process?
]
;B[qh]
;W[rg]C[trousey [17k\]: Can other people from differnt countries take the exam?
]
;B[ph]
;W[rh]
;B[pi]
;W[pj]
;B[oj]
;W[pk]
;B[gc]
;W[he]
;B[eb]C[elementc [?\]: Tygem is funding this
]
;W[if]C[elementc [?\]: only from US and canada
elementc [?\]: Maybe mexico is allowed too? No idea.
jodageezer [5k\]: No, only USA and Canada for this one.
]
;B[bi]
;W[ci]
;B[ch]
;W[bj]
;B[cj]
;W[di]
;B[bh]C[elementc [?\]: okay
goren [3k?\]: making a butterfly shape
]
;W[oi]
;B[of]C[trousey [17k\]: Cant tell whos ahead
]
;W[gp]
;B[gq]
;W[hp]
;B[ig]
;W[hg]
;B[ih]
;W[nj]
;B[jp]C[donovan [7k\]: is this game timed?
blurb1: they play at board
donovan [7k\]: are they timed at board?
blurb1: sure 90 min+byo
bubba [4d\]: feels like black has an easier game right now
donovan [7k\]: thanks
]
;W[op]C[blurb1: before o10 i looked at b r8 no clue if it was sth
]
;B[oq]C[kcharris12 [2d\]: what does 5B stand for
]
;W[mo]
;B[qj]C[blurb1: http://www.usgo.org/aga-professional-system look below
]
;W[ri]C[donovan [7k\]: r 10 doesn't look like good move
meuns [1d\]: h12 seems huge
donovan [7k\]: i'm probably wrong, but i don't see the point
ratsbag [4d?\]: b9 biggest
]
;B[hq]
;W[lp]
;B[hh]
;W[ck]
;B[bo]
;W[ce]
;B[be]
;W[bf]
;B[bd]
;W[ai]
;B[af]
;W[nb]C[kcharris12 [2d\]: ouch
meuns [1d\]: nice attack
meuns [1d\]: 4+
kcharris12 [2d\]: 9+
]
;B[na]
;W[pe]C[kcharris12 [2d\]: seems like didnt work ):
]
;B[pf]
;W[ma]C[meuns [1d\]: yeap
]
;B[oa]
;W[lb]C[kcharris12 [2d\]: it did :O
trousey [17k\]: Cant tell whos ahead
trousey [17k\]: W
]
;B[mc]
;W[lr]
;B[mp]C[kcharris12 [2d\]: n18 not big enough?
]
;W[ln]
;B[mm]C[kcharris12 [2d\]: n6
meuns [1d\]: n6 bad shape
]
;W[lm]
;B[no]C[kcharris12 [2d\]: i bet w also aiming for j3
]
;W[ip]C[donovan [7k\]: o4 cut good idea?
kcharris12 [2d\]: no
kcharris12 [2d\]: leaves m3 for b
meuns [1d\]: o4 is a lol cut
kcharris12 [2d\]: i liked j3 better for w
colas [8k\]: l4 
]
;B[mn]C[kcharris12 [2d\]: nvm
]
;W[lo]
;B[ok]
;W[ol]
;B[nk]
;W[mk]C[kcharris12 [2d\]: b saves two stones but
meuns [1d\]: pro game ?
]
;B[nl]
;W[ml]
;B[nm]C[kcharris12 [2d\]: o11 :)
meuns [1d\]: not n10 ?
Malingo [4d\]: wanna be pro game :)
kcharris12 [2d\]: n10 better
]
;W[mi]C[kcharris12 [2d\]: this leaves cut
meuns [1d\]: maybe not  ^^'
meuns [1d\]: but i can't find the net
HotToTrot [1d\]: n11 seems fine
]
;B[np]C[HotToTrot [1d\]: since its sente
kcharris12 [2d\]: does w need to fix m8 though
HotToTrot [1d\]: fix while attack
HotToTrot [1d\]: k11ish
trousey [17k\]: W r9 life?
]
;W[ik]C[kcharris12 [2d\]: w already alive
HotToTrot [1d\]: w dont need r9
kcharris12 [2d\]: r10 is dead
minimalist [1k\]: j3 seems big
trousey [17k\]: Read it wrong
]
;B[jq]
;W[jo]
;B[fp]
;W[fo]C[kcharris12 [2d\]: s5 would be big yose move
]
;B[rn]C[kcharris12 [2d\]: s7 mistake 
meuns [1d\]: r9 
HotToTrot [1d\]: tricky moves
HotToTrot [1d\]: yes s7 would be bad
kcharris12 [2d\]: r7
]
;W[rm]
;B[ql]C[HotToTrot [1d\]: snap
]
;W[pl]C[kcharris12 [2d\]: *mind explode*
meuns [1d\]: counter trap
HotToTrot [1d\]: am i missing something
meuns [1d\]: p6
spanglish [3k\]: w wants to end in sente
]
;B[lj]C[HotToTrot [1d\]: hmm
HotToTrot [1d\]: good point
]
;W[mj]
;B[qm]C[meuns [1d\]: p6 for ko ?
kcharris12 [2d\]: yep
HotToTrot [1d\]: o
kcharris12 [2d\]: or r8
HotToTrot [1d\]: i was missing something
kcharris12 [2d\]: or q6
blurb1: comment started
HotToTrot [1d\]: counting threats?
]
;W[qk]C[HotToTrot [1d\]: taking sente
]
;B[rl]C[RobertT [-\]: Kim Myung-Wan 9P started commentary on this game on tygem's korea 1
HotToTrot [1d\]: too bad tygem sucks
ratsbag [4d?\]: r9 mistake  s8 first
spanglish [3k\]: it does
]
;W[rk]C[kcharris12 [2d\]: tygem reason aga is able to run this tournament
Contagious [8k?\]: what is tygem?
]
;B[sm]C[CountDooku [4k\]: Another go server
HotToTrot [1d\]: chaos
HotToTrot [1d\]: needs a user friendly upgrade
spanglish [3k\]: and the instalation takes ages
kcharris12 [2d\]: g10 big
]
;W[hj]
;B[gi]C[HotToTrot [1d\]: was thinking he woulda g10 too
ronm [1k\]: tygem is very user friendly now, compared to what it used to be. I think it's no harder than kgs, and I've only played about 10 games on it
]
;W[gj]C[ronm [1k\]: and so many pros play on it....fun games to watch
kcharris12 [2d\]: n17 big now
HotToTrot [1d\]: that is the only up side to tygem
HotToTrot [1d\]: all the pros
HotToTrot [1d\]: where my teacher plays
trousey [17k\]: I was about to ask about the pros
kcharris12 [2d\]: pro's take too long ..
ronm [1k\]: nah they play 30s byo yomi mostly on tygem, or 20sec, with 0-20mins main time
ronm [1k\]: not too long
HotToTrot [1d\]: lol
kcharris12 [2d\]: i only see 90 minutes
trousey [17k\]: Do they play ddks on there?
spanglish [3k\]: sure
arunasr [?\]: talking about tygem, are there any mac people here who can tell me if tygem runs on a mac using the crossover software that emulates Windoze
]
;B[jj]C[meuns [1d\]: noone plays ddk
ronm [1k\]: maybe you're talking about the broadcasted pro matches. but when pros are playing tygem ranked matches they play faster
trousey [17k\]: For free?
arunasr [?\]: without need for any windoze OS
]
;W[jk]C[ronm [1k\]: haha the ddks on tygem are all sandbaggers...a 3d friend of mine joined tygem as 18k (the starting rank there) and lost his first 5 games
HotToTrot [1d\]: yes
]
;B[kb]C[HotToTrot [1d\]: massive problem with sandbaggers
HotToTrot [1d\]: the server its self is so lame too
HotToTrot [1d\]: like igs
HotToTrot [1d\]: needs up dating
trousey [17k\]: Why would they want to ruin the hopes of new players?
YumyNugget: "a 3dan started as a 18k" he's kinda the problem.
trousey [17k\]: Mhmm
]
;W[hc]C[ronm [1k\]: I think, at least in the past, dunno about now, if you don't pick a starting rank when you sign up it gives you 18k
]
;B[gb]C[HotToTrot [1d\]: i think so
trousey [17k\]: Ok
]
;W[ah]C[YumyNugget: oh, ots not really the players fault then?
]
;B[bg]C[ronm [1k\]: well he could've picked a rank but i think he was expecting it to be like the ? system here
]
;W[on]
;B[nn]
;W[mg]C[ronm [1k\]: doesn't seem like w has enough?
HotToTrot [1d\]: i dont no
HotToTrot [1d\]: seems very close to me
HotToTrot [1d\]: b slight ahead maybe
ronm [1k\]: yeah less than komi if ahead at all, quite close
]
;B[lh]C[ronm [1k\]: come on canada
HotToTrot [1d\]: lol
HotToTrot [1d\]: which 1 is candian
ronm [1k\]: jianing
HotToTrot [1d\]: would be funny if one of the first 2 american pros was a canuk
]
;W[ng]C[ronm [1k\]: i thought bill lin would make it...he's so strong
]
;B[me]
;W[gg]
;B[fi]
;W[fj]
;B[dn]
;W[en]
;B[bm]
;W[bl]C[vitamancy [9k\]: How much of the bottom is likely to be black territory?  How much damage can the m2 stone cause there?
HotToTrot [1d\]: playing quick now
ronm [1k\]: i think b plays l2 soon
]
;B[gd]C[Tartarichi [-\]: who is canadian?
]
;W[cp]
;B[bp]C[papabob [10k\]: Jianing Gan
Tartarichi [-\]: thx
Horsti [7k\]: typical canadian name
]
;W[am]C[Tartarichi [-\]: lol
]
;B[bn]C[HotToTrot [1d\]: lol
ronm [1k\]: lollll
]
;W[lg]
;B[kg]C[HotToTrot [1d\]: id guess p1 is on the way soon
HotToTrot [1d\]: maybe l2 first
ronm [1k\]: j2 better?
]
;W[li]
;B[jb]C[Madzilla [2d\]: Isn't B ahead?
ronm [1k\]: p1 gote so i think w plays j2 instead...gote but bigger. maybe k1 instead?
HotToTrot [1d\]: i think ur right with j2
]
;W[ib]C[Madzilla [2d\]: I counted B ahead by a couple of points...
]
;B[hd]C[HotToTrot [1d\]: me too
ronm [1k\]: i count b up by 5-8...
]
;W[ic]C[YumyNugget: awful lot of yose to go.
HotToTrot [1d\]: lots of end game left though
]
;B[ge]C[ronm [1k\]: maybe up by 10 now even
indianayk [4d\]: w has no chance now
ronm [1k\]: seems hard
YumyNugget: Should he make his time?
]
;W[gf]
;B[ki]C[indianayk [4d\]: k18 was a sente for w and b went there first
]
;W[pa]
;B[oe]
;W[kc]C[HotToTrot [1d\]: w gotta make something out the bottom
]
;B[mb]C[ronm [1k\]: just kill g3, then win the game ez
HotToTrot [1d\]: lol
]
;W[iq]
;B[ir]
;W[ep]
;B[eq]C[HotToTrot [1d\]: really
HotToTrot [1d\]: j3
]
;W[kr]
;B[jr]
;W[kp]C[ronm [1k\]: yeah surprises me too, i guess he really wants l2?
]
;B[kk]
;W[kl]C[Gifted [8d\]: j3 worst endgame ever
YumyNugget: l4 ?!
ronm [1k\]: okay good i'm not crazy
vitamancy [9k\]: okay, so why was j3 better for white than j2?
HotToTrot [1d\]: yea
]
;B[mr]C[Gifted [8d\]: wasn't
ronm [1k\]: maybe it's the first step of the resign tesuji
]
;W[sk]
;B[pn]
;W[db]
;B[da]
;W[qn]
;B[sl]C[trousey [17k\]: W is ahead
]
;W[an]C[ru5d [7d\]: b + 6-7 points
trousey [17k\]: Really? Wow looks like w is ahead
HotToTrot [1d\]: yes
HotToTrot [1d\]: no
ru5d [7d\]: oh no + 4 stones
HotToTrot [1d\]: b ahead
ru5d [7d\]: around 10
trousey [17k\]: Ok
]
;B[ei]C[ronm [1k\]: b up over 15 on the board by my count
]
;W[ej]
;B[fe]C[indianayk [4d\]: yes
]
;W[ec]C[trousey [17k\]: Ok
]
;B[fc]
;W[ff]C[ronm [1k\]: g19
]
;B[ha]C[ronm [1k\]: darn
]
;W[ia]
;B[pn]C[osvaldo [1d\]: its impressive that black is only 15 years old! anyone know how old zhang is?
]
;W[hb]
;B[ga]
;W[qn]C[goren [2k?\]: b up by 9
]
;B[ie]
;W[id]C[ronm [1k\]: bad ko threat
]
;B[pn]C[juste [?\]: hes around 13/14?
]
;W[ms]
;B[ns]
;W[qn]
;B[la]
;W[hf]
;B[pn]C[osvaldo [1d\]: i dot think j15 was a bad threat... theres no point there if im not mistaken
Sisley [4k\]: and b also get yose with threats
ronm [1k\]: w got a point for capturing b though
osvaldo [1d\]: ah touche
goren [2k?\]: be15 and make eye at e16 and game over
]
;W[lk]
;B[kj]
;W[qn]
;B[ja]
;W[ie]C[FirePrince [-\]: b is winning by a lot
]
;B[pn]
;W[bq]
;B[br]
;W[qn]C[trousey [17k\]: .
trousey [17k\]: Mhmm
Sisley [4k\]: a13
HotToTrot [1d\]: grim fate
]
;B[ao]
;W[al]
;B[pn]C[trousey [17k\]: This is where ws pro dreams this year end 
Sisley [4k\]: g5 threat for b ?
]
;W[mh]
;B[kh]C[HotToTrot [1d\]: yes
HotToTrot [1d\]: it is
vitamancy [9k\]: yes
ronm [1k\]: g12 b threat
ronm [1k\]: good because it's also w threat
vitamancy [9k\]: as is e14.
]
;W[oh]C[goren [2k?\]: p7
Sisley [4k\]: sounds like so
DrunkJeff [1d\]: count, then fill\\
]
;B[qn]
;W[om]
;B[oo]
;W[ee]
;B[eh]
;W[eg]C[ronm [1k\]: oh good can we have the throw-in ko and aga counting discussion again this game?
Sisley [4k\]: a13
]
;B[ls]C[trousey [17k\]: Such as why is komi7.5 
mchoi555 [1k\]: b is ahead?
ronm [1k\]: area scoring, must be 7.5
trousey [17k\]: ?
]
;W[ks]C[ronm [1k\]: 6.5 same as 5.5 in area scoring
]
;B[js]C[DrunkJeff [1d\]: b would not have played r6 if he were behind
trousey [17k\]: Whats the difference 
]
;W[ii]
;B[ji]C[DrunkJeff [1d\]: 2 points
]
;W[nf]C[trousey [17k\]: Between aga and japannase?
]
;B[ne]
;W[lf]
;B[le]C[ronm [1k\]: http://senseis.xmp.net/?Komi look there for reasons for komi and http://senseis.xmp.net/?AGARules for aga rules
]
;W[aj]
;B[ag]C[trousey [17k\]: Thanks
]
;W[ms]
;B[gh]
;W[fg]
;B[hr]C[FirePrince [-\]: this is aga rigt
ronm [1k\]: was hoping w would throw in at f12 to try for the extra point
ronm [1k\]: yes aga rules
FirePrince [-\]: hm then the game might be close
ronm [1k\]: why
goren [2k?\]: f16 throw is ok
]
;W[lq]
;B[mq]C[Desperis [2k\]: Ko last in AGA rules ?
]
;W[do]
;B[aq]
;W[fa]
;B[ea]C[Illyria [?\]: they're using japanese counting, so the ko isn't important
ronm [1k\]: ko last?
]
;W[hi]
;B[ls]
;W[ae]
;B[ad]
;W[ms]C[base [-\]: black's won
]
;B[fb]
;W[ls]C[ronm [1k\]: illyria: but aga rules are area scoring not territory?
Illyria [?\]: aga rules make both equal
ronm [1k\]: yes but in aga rules sometimes winning a thrown-in ko makes a difference, so the ko must matter
Illyria [?\]: the rules for this tournament says that japanese counting is used, so... I dunno
USGO3 [-\]: ko fight in progress, filling dame
ronm [1k\]: oh if they count japanese then probably it doesn't matter, since the caps will balance it out, it's only when dame worth points and caps don't that the situation occurs i think
rogeko [3k\]: b +10
Illyria [?\]: there's still a point in dame because of pass stones
Illyria [?\]: white always has to pass last
vitamancy [9k\]: any score issues with the e16/f16 spaces under either rule set?
ronm [1k\]: yeah but i mean the reason it might work out is because if w gets last dame and w wins thrown in ko at f16 then w gets one extra pt. but if you count japanese then w getting last dame shouldn't matter...not sure
USGO3 [-\]: Black wins by 11.5
ronm [1k\]: thanks usgo3!
base [-\]: Thank you
au2 [?\]: thanks USGO3
Illyria [?\]: it does matter, because if b plays last, b gets an extra capture from the pass stone
Sisley [4k\]: i cant find anything about it, will the promoted players be submitted to oteai or just by tournaments results ? ?
trousey [17k\]: Wow this is 200 moves ahead of the other one
]
;B[kq]
;W[fd]
;B[go]
;W[gn]
;B[ed]
;W[fh]
;B[ho]
;W[io]
;B[mf]
;W[fd]
;B[em]
;W[hn]
;B[ed]
;W[ca]
;B[ba]
;W[fd]
;B[go]
;W[ho]
;B[ed]
;W[nr]
;B[or]
;W[fd]
;B[ni]
;W[nh]
;B[ed]
;W[jg]
;B[jh]
;W[fd]
;B[sj]
;W[rj]
;B[ed]
;W[os]
;B[ps]
;W[fd]
;B[dk]
;W[dj]
;B[ed]
;W[og]
;B[co]
;W[ij]
;B[]
;W[]TW[qa][ra][sa][rb][sb][rc][sc][rd][sd][se][ef][sf][sg][sh][ni][si][cj][qj][sj][ak][bk][dk][ek][fk][gk][hk][cl][dl][el][fl][gl][hl][il][jl][ll][em][fm][gm][hm][im][jm][km][fn][in][jn][kn][go][ko]TB[aa][ca][fa][ka][ma][ab][bb][lb][nb][ac][bc][nc][fd][ld][md][nd][od][ae][pe][bf][jg][rm][sn][po][ro][so][ap][op][pp][rp][sp][bq][qq][rq][sq][ar][cr][dr][er][fr][gr][nr][pr][qr][rr][sr][as][bs][cs][ds][es][fs][gs][hs][is][os][qs][rs][ss])
