(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[AGA]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[5400]OT[5x60 byo-yomi]
GN[1st AGA-TYGEMGO Pro Finals - 5A]PW[Eric Lui]PB[Jing Yang]WR[7d]BR[7d]DT[2012-08-01]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]US[Dennis Wheeler]C[ThaiThai [7k\]: Anyone?)
ThaiThai [7k\]: when the game starts?
Illyria [?\]: very soon
ThaiThai [7k\]: cool)
]RE[W+Resign]
;B[pd]C[spanglish [3k\]: i knew it
gfdhff [1k\]: right now
]
;W[dd]
;B[pp]C[spanglish [3k\]: d4
]
;W[dp]
;B[fq]C[death101 [3k?\]: go go go :D
]
;W[cn]
;B[jp]C[spanglish [3k\]: d2
]
;W[qn]C[pototo120 [4k\]: R6-O4-S4??
]
;B[qp]C[pototo120 [4k\]: no
pototo120 [4k\]: lolol
death101 [3k?\]: black so cool 0.0
hikarugo [1d\]: misclick? or lukeworm?
ThaiThai [7k\]: mmm... strange, havent seen many of those, only  for weak kyu players
death101 [3k?\]: stronger tygem dans play it all the time -.-
spanglish [3k\]: a kyu wouldnt play this
]
;W[qk]
;B[qi]C[Lynx [1d\]: this is all joseki
death101 [3k?\]: its all fuseki
goren [3k?\]: p9
hikarugo [1d\]: it's all yose
ThaiThai [7k\]: spanglish, I saw this  and s4 move aswell. nvm
Babur [1d\]: zuigfzuighzrg
spanglish [3k\]: p6
goren [3k?\]: p6 helps b no?
pototo120 [4k\]: o17
]
;W[om]C[Hellhuman [1d\]: how did andy and eric play yesterday?
spanglish [3k\]: o5
apranax [7k\]: who is playing ?
]
;B[mp]C[spanglish [3k\]: o17
apranax [7k\]: sorry
Tokedo [1k\]: andy won 2:0
death101 [3k?\]: who is 2 and zero?
NoobSkills [1k\]: o.o
spanglish [3k\]: 2 and 0 are numbers
gooooo [3k?\]: andy already pro?
goren [3k?\]: r13? r14?
death101 [3k?\]: no this is pro prelims
stalkor [2k?\]: now thats cash in the pocket:)
Illyria [?\]: andy plays gansheng shi tomorrow for the first pro spot
]
;W[fc]C[goren [3k?\]: and there has to be some invasion option for the bottom.  n3 or something?
]
;B[nc]C[Timk [1k\]: lllyria
spanglish [3k\]: d2
Timk [1k\]: first pro spot ?
Timk [1k\]: is he going to be pro ?
spanglish [3k\]: or c15
death101 [3k?\]: yep first American pro right?
Illyria [?\]: there are two pro spots that are being determined by this tournament
Timk [1k\]: o_O
goren [3k?\]: so i think like maybe n3 or s16 now
Timk [1k\]: thank you
Timk [1k\]: my hands on BBW :)
death101 [3k?\]: but this is just to get in the tourney right?
trousey [17k\]: Wait america has pro exams now?????
ThaiThai [7k\]: yeah
Illyria [?\]: this is the first one
spanglish [3k\]: no age limit
ilerngo [14k\]: is this the olympics for go?
ThaiThai [7k\]: I only wonder if they exam non-american citizens and rank them
Mef [-\]: More information on this event - http://www.usgo.org/aga-professional-system
death101 [3k?\]: better then the olympics for go x)
spanglish [3k\]: unfortunately there is no go in the olympics, there is no chess either
trousey [17k\]: Yes i still have a shot
goren [3k?\]: olympic chess doping would include an ipad with rybka...
Archivist [12k?\]: wait what no age limit, so there is reason to actually study seriously
death101 [3k?\]: yea
death101 [3k?\]: you could be 60 and go pro :)
trousey [17k\]: Thats good though 
Archivist [12k?\]: holy crap that is awesome i just started playing this month but fell in love with the game
death101 [3k?\]: yea then the tops are actaully the strongest not just the young
spanglish [3k\]: how can they think so much..
Archivist [12k?\]: wait last month lol
Illyria [?\]: eric's probably counting
death101 [3k?\]: Arch how old are you?
tvh [2k\]: d11?
]
;W[dj]C[Archivist [12k?\]: 24
death101 [3k?\]: then you have to beat the 64 year olds who have been playing for 50years to go pro...
trousey [17k\]: Yes
trousey [17k\]: It will make usa better
Archivist [12k?\]: hmm lol well that may take awhile but I will start working towards that
death101 [3k?\]: I think it will keep our pro's at the same standards as asain countries
goren [3k?\]: someone play b16 for b or s16 for w...
death101 [3k?\]: k17 next I think
Warfreak2 [4d\]: super jing yang
gooooo [3k?\]: or he will play close to r11
death101 [3k?\]: he doesn't have time for that
gooooo [3k?\]: yeah, b16 looks pretty nice
Medriel [1k?\]: so the winner of the tournament becomes pro?
pototo120 [4k\]: k16 or d12 posible ???
death101 [3k?\]: mhm its going to be held at the go congress
ThaiThai [7k\]: r15
trousey [17k\]: We shouldnt have an age limit imagine how many people over 30 in japan have pro abilitys we should keep it like korea 
]
;B[dq]C[trousey [17k\]: Wow
]
;W[cq]
;B[cr]C[trousey [17k\]: 2 pros a year or what?
death101 [3k?\]: korea has an age limit right?
death101 [3k?\]: 2 pro's a year
Lynx [1d\]: it is the first year of this pro system
Lynx [1d\]: possibly in years to come it will have more
]
;W[eq]
;B[dr]C[goren [3k?\]: I think this is a nice closing of h3 area with d3 - in sente.  
tiran [3k\]: so are those guy's are inseis?
death101 [3k?\]: no
RobertT [-\]: someones been watching too much hikaru no go
death101 [3k?\]: xD
ThaiThai [7k\]: xD
ThaiThai [7k\]: great anime thogh
Illyria [?\]: xd
lucifer3 [2k\]: is 7d the highest rank for amateurs?
death101 [3k?\]: no 9 dan
RobertT [-\]: in the u.s. system, yes
Illyria [?\]: 7d in the US
death101 [3k?\]: well in us
]
;W[er]C[RobertT [-\]: most systems are switching to 7d max
Mef [-\]: AGA has ratings higher than 7, but doesn't call anyone higher than 7d traditionally
wallh [4k\]: what are those two's precise rating ?
RobertT [-\]: eric is 8.7, jing yang is 8.9
Mef [-\]: Eric Lui 8.7, Jing Yang 8.9
goren [3k?\]: 2696,891 elo
wallh [4k\]: thank you Mef
wallh [4k\]: and RobertT*
RobertT [-\]: w cant do the normal tesuji in this joseki because of k4
RobertT [-\]: there is a net tesuji that catches blacks stones cleanly in this joseki but because of k4 stone the cutting stones wont be caught cleanly
Lynx [1d\]: is there a site or chart that converts dan ranks into elo?
Lynx [1d\]: It'd make describing to chess players so much easier
RobertT [-\]: not really. egf goes by elo but their elo is a little off
RobertT [-\]: a friend and I figured out our ranks in chess but dont really have a neat match for it
trousey [17k\]: Almost the highest ranking you can get
Illyria [?\]: what is elo?
NoobSkills [1k\]: like your rank in go
RobertT [-\]: mid dan amateur is about national master to fide master
trousey [17k\]: How many people a year pass?
ratsbag [4d?\]: a telly tubby greeting
goren [3k?\]: nah.  Mid dan is at most 2100
RobertT [-\]: mid dan meaning 4d-6d kgs
goren [3k?\]: that is mid high dan
goren [3k?\]: oh wait - kgs
papabob [10k\]: http://senseis.xmp.net/?EloRating
trousey [17k\]: How many pass the exam?
goren [3k?\]: so  yeah, maybe  2200 or 2300 or so for 6d.  
RobertT [-\]: that site is a little off because go ranking actually are a little wider than chess ranking
]
;B[ep]
;W[fr]
;B[cp]
;W[do]
;B[bp]C[RobertT [-\]: now normal tesuji is w g5
RobertT [-\]: to capture blacks stones but k4 is in the way
goren [3k?\]: with there being pro ranks in go, all amaeur go ranks must be somewhere below 2400 elo when compared to chess
]
;W[gq]C[RobertT [-\]: pro ranks are only 2 stones wide in stength
]
;B[fp]C[RobertT [-\]: so actually pros are only from about 2600-2800 roughly
]
;W[gp]C[goren [3k?\]: i heard there are 3 stones between 1p and 9p
ptitlou [2d\]: robert how could g5 capture the stones enven without k4 ?
]
;B[en]C[RobertT [-\]: its a tesuji in joseki. look it up an a joseki dectionary to find the details
ptitlou [2d\]: g5 g4 h4 g2 h3 f1
yoyoma [1d\]: I like to use this chart to compare AGA/KGS ranks to USCF Elo   http://senseis.xmp.net/?RatingHistogramComparisons
RobertT [-\]: basically b would be squeezed down to the j2 area if he tried to connect and run out
RobertT [-\]: and f2 group would have more libs than the f4 group
ptitlou [2d\]: ha ok so it just a squeeze
RobertT [-\]: it ends up killing
]
;W[gn]
;B[fn]C[RobertT [-\]: well I guess it can turn into a squeeze if w wants to give b a clean wall
trousey [17k\]: Can people from other countries take the exam?
RobertT [-\]: its only open to u.s. and canadian citizens
trousey [17k\]: Ok
goren [3k?\]: according to that table I am 4d in chess.  seems pretty high.  Elo works well for chess, it should be adapted for go as well, then there would be no ambiguity.
]
;W[cl]
;B[gm]
;W[hn]
;B[dm]C[blurb1: the national elos differ quite a lot from international elo though in us for example
goren [3k?\]: dont vary as much as dan oe kyu rankings between countries I think
]
;W[cm]
;B[hm]C[blurb1: maybe but a friend of mine had to add 200 chess elo to his rating and still won a price
blurb1: german in us tourney xD
RobertT [-\]: goren, look at the european go database. they use elo. the top players in the world are 2950 so the top end is a litle higher. just adjust for the slight over rating and find your rank in elo.
]
;W[jn]C[elementc [?\]: looks like white is doing pretty well
]
;B[im]C[osvaldo [1d\]: i like black, but maybe because im canadian
elementc [?\]: I'm just glad Lui beat Lui
Illyria [?\]: actually, liu beat lui
RobertT [-\]: speaking of liu, hi hjekshdf :p
viu30h [5k\]: with that ultra weirdo nakade shape right?
]
;W[in]C[elementc [?\]: it's only a shame Liu gives the worst interviews
elementc [?\]: he'll probably become pro
elementc [?\]: "How do you feel about winning?"
elementc [?\]: "Okay." -- Andy Liu
wallh [4k\]: well if that's how he feels
viu30h [5k\]: i wonder where i heard that he doesnt want to become pro
elementc [?\]: Any message to your fans?
elementc [?\]: "Not really."
Illyria [?\]: you know he's here, right?
goren [3k?\]: intersting, thanks robert.  Seems a 2 stone difference to the weaker end.  A bit more like it.
viu30h [5k\]: lol really?  i think i like andy liu alot then xD
elementc [?\]: well the questions is whether it's deadpan humor or not
elementc [?\]: *question
Malingo [4d\]: if you ask stupid questions you get stupid answers
blurb1: i could say i hate loosing and love winning xD
viu30h [5k\]: can someone give me alink with the data who need how many wins still  and who is ahead and stuff
elementc [?\]: http://www.usgo.org/aga-professional-system
elementc [?\]: pretty convoluted
viu30h [5k\]: thx
RobertT [-\]: there are only 6 players left and the games being played are from the losers bracket. so whoever loses these 2 games gets knocked out.
trousey [17k\]: Can they try again next year also how do you get in the tournment?
RobertT [-\]: Andy Liu and Gansheng Shi in winners brackets. Eric Liu, Hugh Zhang, Jianing Gan and Jing Yang in losers brackets.
Javaness [3d\]: black all kinds of awesome
Lynx [1d\]: almost dinner break time =(
vicered [5k\]: is there a video link of this game ? 
RobertT [-\]: there where qualifing tournaments that happened the last couple months
lucifer3 [2k\]: are those player eliminated already?
elementc [?\]: no
elementc [?\]: they get a second chance
lucifer3 [2k\]: whats the matter of this match?
RobertT [-\]: if you did well enough in the qualifying tournament, you qualified for this pro tournament
RobertT [-\]: its double elimination tournament
RobertT [-\]: so all the players playing right now have 1 loss (winners bracket isnt playing this round)
jodageezer [5k\]: There were several places to play in qualifying tournaments.
viu30h [5k\]: whats the matter with the ko diagram on that page?
jodageezer [5k\]: And the AGA picked a couple of players also.
]
;B[be]C[RobertT [-\]: AGA and CGA
jodageezer [5k\]: yes, sorry Canada, didn't mean to leave you out. There were two from Canada right?
trousey [17k\]: Gotcha so you can only try twice?
RobertT [-\]: ?
trousey [17k\]: How many times can you take the exam?
Jayy [-\]: 4 canadians
jodageezer [5k\]: Anyone, even double digit kyus could play in the first round of the Tygem Pro prelims. And for just playing you got a pin to show that you played in it.
RobertT [-\]: I'm not 100% sure but I think you can try for it as many times as you want
Malingo [4d\]: North amarica will get far too many pros if they make 2 a year
trousey [17k\]: Wow i could say i tried to go pro at 17k haha is it free?
RobertT [-\]: yep "Go for pro 2012" pin
jodageezer [5k\]: yes, it was free.
trousey [17k\]: Well im joining tygem also haha 
]
;W[ce]C[gooooo [3k?\]: any pro commentary?
RobertT [-\]: pro commentary stars 90 minutes after the round starts
]
;B[cd]C[RobertT [-\]: so in about 30 minutes
RobertT [-\]: starts*
Malingo [4d\]: who wants to be pro when wagc is so nice a tournament
viu30h [5k\]: what kinda style does this gansheng play?
jodageezer [5k\]: Who else is Canadian in these finals besides Gansheng Shi and Jing Yang?
Illyria [?\]: jianing gan, bill lin
viu30h [5k\]: lol they can still go there and stand in the pro corner and babble about how outdated the joseki played are
Illyria [?\]: oh, bill lin already got knocked out
McMaster [-\]: you have a good point there, Malingo, maybe you can suggest to them: make this a once every 4 yrs event?
joenosai [4k\]: I wander how long they been playing for
trousey [17k\]: 2 years 
trousey [17k\]: Not 4
RobertT [-\]: viu, watch his games and find out. one of his accounts on kgs is "gifted" and he just played vs smart robot
joenosai [4k\]: how long has this game been on
trousey [17k\]: Every winter and summer olympics pro exams
trousey [17k\]: Gifted was playing a few min ago
HotToTrot [1d\]: i wanna see BBW vs smartrobot
Koons [1k\]: hmmm, b seems reasonably happy, yes?
RobertT [-\]: actually both him and andy are watching right now :p
]
;W[de]C[Koons [1k\]: maybe the floating group is a problem?
trousey [17k\]: 7.5 komi?
viu30h [5k\]: robert is the go stalker he knows everything of the high dan gossib
viu30h [5k\]: *p
RobertT [-\]: Gansheng Shi = Gifted , Andy Liu = hjekshdf. both in this game watching right now.
jodageezer [5k\]: Robert, are u there at the games now?
RobertT [-\]: no
Ranchan [-\]: :o
jodageezer [5k\]: Are u going to the Congress this year?
]
;B[bd]
;W[bf]C[RobertT [-\]: can't make it this year. trying to next year
]
;B[dc]C[Koons [1k\]: I go Friday.  yay
RobertT [-\]: next year its in seattle which is much easier for me to go to
]
;W[ec]C[jodageezer [5k\]: yeah Seattle is more convenient for us West-Coasters. 
]
;B[cb]C[viu30h [5k\]: the games are on tygem also right?
Malingo [4d\]: Seattle sounds a lot better than  Poland
trousey [17k\]: Why not d18?
trousey [17k\]: For b
viu30h [5k\]: d18 b18 headache+
RobertT [-\]: yes, the games are being broadcasted on tygem too. also the pro commentary happens on tygem.
trousey [17k\]: B 18 sorry
trousey [17k\]: No d 18
viu30h [5k\]: sad theres no usgotv
RobertT [-\]: Kim Myung-Wan 9P has been doing english commentary of the top board each round starting 90 minutes after the round starts
Koons [1k\]: on which server, in what room?
viu30h [5k\]: cool stuff cool stuff
trousey [17k\]: Instead of c17
RobertT [-\]: he does commentary from tygems korea 1
viu30h [5k\]: tygem aga room
Malingo [4d\]: i bet pros dont like G7 group
RobertT [-\]: his name on tygem is MWKim9P
viu30h [5k\]: korea 1 really?  not the aga room?
Koons [1k\]: can you see it with ipad app?
RobertT [-\]: aga room is a competition room so you cant do relays well in it
RobertT [-\]: normal games and reviews cant be made in that room
viu30h [5k\]: ah its no ordinary room?
RobertT [-\]: so he has to do it from korea 1
zeku [1k\]: every room 
viu30h [5k\]: audo or text commentary?
zeku [1k\]: audio
RobertT [-\]: yah aga room is the "competition" room which only supports broadcasts. it doesnt allow relays of other games or normal games to be played in it
RobertT [-\]: audio and video :p
RobertT [-\]: you get to see Kim Myung-Wan's face while he comments hehe
viu30h [5k\]: what you mean with video?  there not filming the players but the review
viu30h [5k\]: lol?
blurb1: they have a relay button in the client hes always on top
Koons [1k\]: ah, that sounds well beyond the capability of the ipad app
RobertT [-\]: by video I mean he has a webcam so you can see him while he does the audio review lol
viu30h [5k\]: xD
RobertT [-\]: tygem allows video inside the review window
Koons [1k\]: on pc only, right?
RobertT [-\]: I'm not sure
RobertT [-\]: basically imagine the kgs user pic was a webcam video of the player
viu30h [5k\]: which reminds me to get a user pic
Koons [1k\]: guesses for w's first move after this joseki?  i'll take l8
Malingo [4d\]: i take k7 then
Illyria [?\]: yeah, k7 seems powerful
Koons [1k\]: (well, maybe i chose the right direction, anyway :)
jodageezer [5k\]: USGO1, did they breeak for dinner or what?
viu30h [5k\]: n16 way too greedy?
mathe123 [-\]: is there going to be commentary
Illyria [?\]: I bet eric's counting
mathe123 [-\]: by a pro
mathe123 [-\]: if yes, where?
Illyria [?\]: on tygem
radzik23 [-\]: eric winning by around 20 now
mthd [-\]: on which server and how to find the room ?
Matsuyama [-\]: who is this pro?
Koons [1k\]: scroll up about 50 lines
mthd [-\]: kk
mathe123 [-\]: well,  it's way to early to declare anyone winner yet
radzik23 [-\]: true but black position is really bad
Tokedo [1k\]: but black has 4 corners
viu30h [5k\]: b has a hugeingle amount of points
]
;W[gj]C[Lynx [1d\]: b is not sad, he is not mad, but he isn't glad either; he has to take points
Illyria [?\]: b doesn't have all that many solid points
Koons [1k\]: g10 was my second guess :)
tvh [2k\]: there is a proverb "if you have 4 corners resign"
viu30h [5k\]: only as black
mathe123 [-\]: @tokedo, I heard that is actually a bad thing
Koons [1k\]: threre is another, don't surround territory with thickness
Illyria [?\]: if either player has all 4 corners, black should resign
viu30h [5k\]: yup thats it
mathe123 [-\]: well, good for white ;)
mathe123 [-\]: just take all corners and black's going to resign ^^
viu30h [5k\]: upper right corner maybe not yet bs
Tokedo [1k\]: @ mathe123: not necessarily, it depends on a style
malaxor [9k\]: J10
mathe123 [-\]: yeah, i agree, it's just a proverb
Dorkan [6k?\]: I feel that there should be a good tesuji around m3~o3
RobertT [-\]: the tesuji is called "contact the middle stone and hope for the best"
Koons [1k\]: Dorkan,  maybe w isn't strong enough outside yet to try it?
]
;B[ij]C[viu30h [5k\]: n16 too gready?
malaxor [9k\]: boom
tvh [2k\]: k7?
dimse: n16 
radzik23 [-\]: white must play somewhere in upper right now
]
;W[kl]C[radzik23 [-\]: but l8 would be tragic
GreedKills [2k\]: how do we find out more about the pro qualification? this is what this game is a part of right?
GreedKills [2k\]: is the winner of the tourney the first official u.s. pro?
mathe123 [-\]: well, no eye for black, that is his plan ;)
Koons [1k\]: GreedKills plus he is name honorary 9P
GreedKills [2k\]: wat
radzik23 [-\]: lets see how black settles
elementc [?\]: two pros
GreedKills [2k\]: they will 1p?
elementc [?\]: presumably I guess
Koons [1k\]: 1p*
mathe123 [-\]: yeah was a little confused
GreedKills [2k\]: and they'll be paid by the Korean Baduk professional assoc?
GreedKills [2k\]: or will they just have a title
elementc [?\]: dunno about that
Kotomi [?\]: the 2 winners will be 1p yes
elementc [?\]: they'll get to play in pro tournaments though if they want
GreedKills [2k\]: that is so cool
mathe123 [-\]: i would answer this move
viu30h [5k\]: if they dont want the aga is gonna be angry with them xd
elementc [?\]: Tygem is the one taking a big leap of faith here
vitamancy [9k\]: www.usgo.org/aga-professional-system for details of the tourney.
radzik23 [-\]: not many options for black
goren [2k?\]: what leap of faith?  they will make a ton of money
viu30h [5k\]: currently there donating ton of money
elementc [?\]: yes the US go market has historically generated boatloads of cash
elementc [?\]: ...
viu30h [5k\]: dont see where they shall get ton of money from
]
;B[bg]C[mathe123 [-\]: enough options to connect here,  oh he doesn't ^^
goren [2k?\]: your business acumen is 20 k
Koons [1k\]: Nike is just waiting to see who is crowned
Javaness [3d\]: awesome move
radzik23 [-\]: Sparta move :)
mathe123 [-\]: :) let's get out, take the side
mathe123 [-\]: well, actually it a reduction
Koons [1k\]: punish him Eric!
mathe123 [-\]: you need to be brave to punish this
Koons [1k\]: i mean punish h7 group 
viu30h [5k\]: lets say next white cuts and indeed it kills and b play c14 taking all profit from white    is that really a bad exchange for b?
radzik23 [-\]: not brave, u need to have a brain :)
Koons [1k\]: j9 and have some fun
mathe123 [-\]: i know many guys who don't think while playing go ;)
RobertT [-\]: Kim Myung-Wan 9P started commentary on the hugh zhang vs jianing gan game on tygem's korea 1
viu30h [5k\]: when will commentary of this one start?
RobertT [-\]: he only does 1 game so its just going to be the other game
goren [2k?\]: can w risk a14?
radzik23 [-\]: a14 i think is bad
goren [2k?\]: no, i also thin a14, c14 and something dies
]
;W[ik]C[Elgringogo [5k\]: tygem's korea 1 is the name of a room ?
]
;B[hk]
;W[il]C[malaxor [9k\]: dead
RobertT [-\]: korea 1 is the name of the room on the tygem go server
malaxor [9k\]: c 13 makes no sense if you have to come back and defend that group
Elgringogo [5k\]: thx you
Tartarichi [-\]: server nº 1 korea
Koons [1k\]: cool he cut
goren [2k?\]: g9??
Malingo [4d\]: i dont see any good moves for b
GreedKills [2k\]: tygem doesn't have a distro for the mac?
mathe123 [-\]: those are 7d
RobertT [-\]: tygem is only for windows or ipad
GreedKills [2k\]: weird
mathe123 [-\]: they don't make suvh midzskrd
malaxor [9k\]: c13 mistake?
GreedKills [2k\]: i feel like if they want to reach more people that would be another easy way ^^
radzik23 [-\]: black if it comes to it, can leave part of this group as an aji
radzik23 [-\]: it is not so big especially 
mathe123 [-\]: not sure abou that
Koons [1k\]: it is very big
radzik23 [-\]: in exchange 
malaxor [9k\]: if it wasn't so big, why woud he continue defending that group?
mathe123 [-\]: what he is going claim isn't small either
radzik23 [-\]: taking whites moyo
ennuistic [2d\]: what are you rambling about?
malaxor [9k\]: after c 13, he would have played somewhere else, no?
]
;B[gk]
;W[hj]C[Hench [3k\]: thing is, little edges will only settle after the larger picture settles, so h7 group must prove itself before worrying about b13 threat
]
;B[fj]C[mathe123 [-\]: double hane
mathe123 [-\]: ^^
ennuistic [2d\]: double hane will kill black group.
Ukasuhs [5d?\]: hah...
radzik23 [-\]: j11 ladder?
indianayk [4d\]: i would have given up 9 stones and taken outside
]
;W[fi]C[goren [2k?\]: j11
ennuistic [2d\]: j11 ajikeshi
mathe123 [-\]: if this would be 1d I would clearly say black is screwed with his h7 group
Koons [1k\]: wannabe pros die too
ponno [6k?\]: eric lui or eric liu?
malaxor [9k\]: get glasses
Koons [1k\]: the former
goren [2k?\]: the ladder
indianayk [4d\]: this is exactly what eric wanted to.
goren [2k?\]: k7
radzik23 [-\]: i agree
radzik23 [-\]: indianayk
malaxor [9k\]: z20
mathe123 [-\]: pass would be worst case scenario
mathe123 [-\]: here
goren [2k?\]: lunch in 5 mins?
USGO1 [-\]: dinner break
]
;B[jm]C[trousey [17k\]: Wow 200 moves behind the other game
Illyria [?\]: well, there was a dinner break in this game
]
;W[km]C[Illyria [?\]: the other game didn't bother because they were close to the end
elementc [?\]: the other game was already going faster
elementc [?\]: before the dinner break
Illyria [?\]: yeah, kid games tend to do that
elementc [?\]: 11.5 loss for Zhang
Tetriste [-\]: if yang wins we have at least one canadian pro :P
Vizsla [2d\]: does the player who went by the name of darkmage ages ago here in kgs play in this series?
Koons [1k\]: does yang look likely to win?  :)
elementc [?\]: Jianing won
elementc [?\]: and he's canadian isn't he
Tetriste [-\]: yeah
Illyria [?\]: darkmage = zchen
Tetriste [-\]: only americans left are andy and eric
Illyria [?\]: and he isn't playing this tournament
Vizsla [2d\]: yes, zchen
Vizsla [2d\]: ok
elementc [?\]: Andy will definitely become pro
Tetriste [-\]: likely
Tetriste [-\]: but it's not 100% sure
elementc [?\]: nothing ever is
Koons [1k\]: what did he / is he majoring in?  (Andy that is)
Illyria [?\]: I have a hard time imagining andy losing to gansheng shi
Tetriste [-\]: I think gansheng shi is doing great in this tournament
elementc [?\]: Myung-wan said that he thinks Andy is the strongest one there (all are pretty close in strength but you know what he means)
elementc [?\]: Koons, he obviously must have majored in communication and social skills
Tetriste [-\]: is there no pro commenting this game? I think it's quite an important game
elementc [?\]: it's being commented
elementc [?\]: but not here
elementc [?\]: the whole thing is sponsored by Tygem
Tetriste [-\]: yeah but I don't see it on Tygem
Sheriffi [-\]: BBW should comment
elementc [?\]: Korea 1
Illyria [?\]: no, the commentary was on the other game
elementc [?\]: not the AGA Room
Tetriste [-\]: oh
elementc [?\]: and yeah it's for the game that already just finished
Tetriste [-\]: thx
elementc [?\]: but Myung-wan is going to finish his commentar
elementc [?\]: should be back from dinner soon
Tetriste [-\]: he won't bother commenting this one?
elementc [?\]: nope
Tetriste [-\]: kinda sad, the other game was quite the easy win for Jianing
elementc [?\]: yeah
Vizsla [2d\]: tygem and wbaduk have something in common? the interfaces are strikingly similar
elementc [?\]: they're both korean servers
Vizsla [2d\]: wbaduk is what used to be orobaduk right?
elementc [?\]: yes
mathe123 [-\]: when does it continue
elementc [?\]: when they finish eating
Illyria [?\]: it's already started again
Illyria [?\]: this is just a very complicated fight
]
;B[ej]C[mathe123 [-\]: black is in fault himself
]
;W[ei]
;B[dk]C[Tetriste [-\]: I think black's going to win
mathe123 [-\]: not sure
Vizsla [2d\]: this dont look to promising for b
]
;W[cj]C[Illyria [?\]: but being forced to live so tiny seems really bad for b
elementc [?\]: I like white
Tetriste [-\]: it seems, but w got a lot of holes
Ukasuhs [5d?\]: if the alternative is dying...
Illyria [?\]: eric's really good at using influence, too
Tetriste [-\]: yang's good at causing trouble
elementc [?\]: Black has no chance to survive. He must make his time.
Ukasuhs [5d?\]: i hope im not the only one who gets the reference
Illyria [?\]: you are not
FirePrince [-\]: oh their done with dinner
Vizsla [2d\]: i hate my mobile internet, i keep lagging out
Vizsla [2d\]: someone say something so i know im not alone in the etherlags
Koons [1k\]: you are not alone
Vizsla [2d\]: thanks
Koons [1k\]: maybe b can live, but i can't see how he can get a good result.  seems like a good game for w.  and b13 looks very silly now
Koons [1k\]: but i know nothing
Vizsla [2d\]: b3 seemed really badly timed
Vizsla [2d\]: 13
Lynx [1d\]: are u named after Eric Cartman, Koons?
Koons [1k\]: ah, long before south park
Vizsla [2d\]: well, thats a pretty old episode
goren [2k\]: h8
Koons [1k\]: there was a pop artist named Jeff Koons
elementc [?\]: oh hey
elementc [?\]: he decided to comment this game
Vizsla [2d\]: can b even live locally?
Vizsla [2d\]: doesnt seem easy
Illyria [?\]: h8 is sente
Koons [1k\]: cool, can you see it on an ipad? or need the pc client?
Illyria [?\]: it's not that hard to live
goren [2k\]: h8, k8, f8 aive
goren [2k\]: alive
Vizsla [2d\]: ah yes, cause b has the ladder
Vizsla [2d\]: but thats way too good for w
Illyria [?\]: that might be b's only choice, though
goren [2k\]: well, b did get b13 in there so he's ok
Vizsla [2d\]: b13 hardly a compensation
redf [4k\]: 8d?
goren [2k\]: b 4 corners so its w who needs compesation
Tetriste [-\]: yeah compensation or not w hardly have any territory
Illyria [?\]: huh, maybe h8 isn't sente
goren [2k\]: h8 is sente
GoRoGoRo [8k?\]: yes
Illyria [?\]: what if b j11 and then h11?
smonds3 [3d\]: d6 double sente?
Illyria [?\]: ladder doesn't work
Lynx [1d\]: what I'm not liking about this game is that everyone is playing too quickly
Archivist [12k?\]: lol h8 hate
Tetriste [-\]: I don't think b wants to play d6
profan [-\]: d8 seki?
smonds3 [3d\]: how much harm for B to play D6 if it is in fact useful?
Tetriste [-\]: because it leaves b5 sente later
Vizsla [2d\]: what do you mean ladder dont work, w defends at h11?
Illyria [?\]: yeah
Vizsla [2d\]: well that would give b a nice atari
Tetriste [-\]: personally I would try to do without d6 if I could
]
;B[di]C[Tetriste [-\]: no I mean d6 c5 and later w gets b5
smonds3 [3d\]: agreed
Tetriste [-\]: so d6 is only in case there's no other way
Tetriste [-\]: that's fairly interesting
l9xl9 [-\]: f9 e9 g8 ?
Tetriste [-\]: b doesnt mind to sacrifice it if it gives c6
]
;W[ci]C[Vizsla [2d\]: in real pro games you dont see this mesy things . they read it out before diving in :\\
dullah12 [3k\]: this seems to work for b
Lynx [1d\]: not sure I agree Vizsla
Tetriste [-\]: g11 
dullah12 [3k\]: lee sedol is pretty messy not to say that he doesnt read
profan [-\]: well pretty messy if you dont read like him ^^
goren [2k\]: check out a player called ko geun tae
Tetriste [-\]: let's not forget that you're talking about real 9p games
Tetriste [-\]: not pro games in general
Ukasuhs [5d?\]: i dont think 9p is how you describe lee sedol's rank
goren [2k\]: he outmessies sedol and beats him
goren [2k\]: soundly 
spanglish [3k\]: you canT beat him
Ranchan [-\]: 1-5p play messy games
Vizsla [2d\]: well, yeah, the kind of pro games youd check, im sure all of use study games from unknown 1p's 
spanglish [3k\]: he lets others win sometimes
Tetriste [-\]: well lee sedol got beat pretty badly in last BC card cup
profan [-\]: if you read carefully a variation and doesnt satisfy you, andn no time, do you change blind, or you play that variation?
Tetriste [-\]: by a rookie at that
Illyria [?\]: I wish we could get time check
Tetriste [-\]: I'm surprised they play that slowly for every moves though, if b played d11 surely he knows what to play next
Vizsla [2d\]: me too
Illyria [?\]: you'd think that
Tetriste [-\]: good players don't play moves, they play sequences
dullah12 [3k\]: all pros sign a contract they must take 2 minutes or more to play a move
l9xl9 [-\]: i guess you get in a rythme
Illyria [?\]: maybe c11 was completely unexpected?
spanglish [3k\]: how much time have they left
Lynx [1d\]: well in B's defense, this position is superbly complicated
Tetriste [-\]: specially in a position like this, you spend a very long time on the first move, then you play the rest quite fast
Ranchan [-\]: I think black should never be in this position
Tetriste [-\]: because it's the first move that counts
goren [2k\]: www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEVLfK9pesE   This is ko geun tae
indianayk [4d\]: k10 works
jbai [4d\]: hmm
jbai [4d\]: not sure
Tetriste [-\]: well unless b didn't expect c11, which would be weird
jbai [4d\]: B can live in disgrace...
smonds3 [3d\]: does k10 work?k10 l9 g11 h11 g12 h12 ?
Tetriste [-\]: no such thing as living in disgrace when you're ahead in points
]
;B[jj]C[jbai [4d\]: if w gets two ponukis in the center, then balck moyo will be all gone
Babur [1d\]: shisho
Tetriste [-\]: b doesn't have a moyo?
smonds3 [3d\]: black moyo?
Babur [1d\]: nice move
jbai [4d\]: Upper right
jbai [4d\]: how much points are there, all depends on the center thickness
]
;W[jk]C[jbai [4d\]: And if w N3, w will have more points than b in the bottom
smonds3 [3d\]: b bottom < 15
goren [2k\]: this will be w+ resign.  too bad since im canadian...
jbai [4d\]: NO, since you are a kid:-)
Tetriste [-\]: I think it's way too early to conclude
jbai [4d\]: right, 
jbai [4d\]: such as "B leading in points"
]
;B[gi]
;W[hi]
;B[gh]
;W[hh]C[Babur [1d\]: d12
spanglish [3k\]: d12
smonds3 [3d\]: so i guess my question a few moves ago will be answered
Babur [1d\]: d12 is useless
Vizsla [2d\]: the kind of line this is taking, i dont see this game making it to counting
goren [2k\]: g13
Sisley [4k\]: h13 :p
Tetriste [-\]: d12 ?
]
;B[dh]
;W[fh]
;B[gg]C[Vizsla [2d\]: w cant be captured
Tetriste [-\]: I don't see how it's useless
Vizsla [2d\]: i think
Vizsla [2d\]: f13
spanglish [3k\]: complicated
]
;W[fg]C[Tetriste [-\]: g14?
spanglish [3k\]: h13
]
;B[ff]C[Vizsla [2d\]: h13 w would be out for good
smonds3 [3d\]: i was reading this in my head currently...
goren [2k\]: didnt g13 kill either left or right???
]
;W[eg]C[elementc [?\]: Myung wan say black capture top but black group is dead in the center
smonds3 [3d\]: what exactly does that mean?
Tetriste [-\]: well it's pretty much do or die now, winner of the fight win the games
elementc [?\]: the lower black groups is dead
spanglish [3k\]: secured top and died in center
elementc [?\]: but black will get E16
elementc [?\]: and white can still invade at the bottom
Snif [3k\]: of course B is dead for now ^^
spanglish [3k\]: if black is dead then he lost
Tetriste [-\]: g14 looked better than f14
Vizsla [2d\]: wonder why b risked so much when he was not bad point wise
costco [1k\]: b def lost if dead?
Tetriste [-\]: well, depends if there's a big compensation
Tetriste [-\]: but it doesn't look like it
smonds3 [3d\]: hm
smonds3 [3d\]: i see
elementc [?\]: black can get a pretty large type but white is still getting more
chouka [4d\]: h13 k11 l10 k12 e14 d13 d14 c13 c14
elementc [?\]: *large top
elementc [?\]: but not game over yet
chouka [4d\]: and white big prbleù with e16
smonds3 [3d\]: h13 j12 j13 k12 e14 d13 d14 c13 c14 c12 
Tetriste [-\]: if b gets the large top I think it's an ok compensation
elementc [?\]: white is still getting more
elementc [?\]: and black has to be careful not to let white live on top
jbai [4d\]: Probably w will get sente
Tetriste [-\]: but w will have no other place to make points, although I agree b would need to be careful
elementc [?\]: white can still invade the bottom
smonds3 [3d\]: hm
Tetriste [-\]: would be a reduction game
]
;B[hg]C[smonds3 [3d\]: can black play C12 to live?
Vizsla [2d\]: its a tricky capture,  w would have to be careful not to let b turn it into a semedori at any point
Snif [3k\]: I guess H13 works :p
smonds3 [3d\]: making miai of e14 and C9?
spanglish [3k\]: run w run
]
;W[ji]C[dullah12 [3k\]: take off with the win
Tetriste [-\]: there's also l6
Tetriste [-\]: I would l10 as b
Tetriste [-\]: but maybe it's too wishful thinking
spanglish [3k\]: l10 only
Vizsla [2d\]: if l10 b might lose forcing moves, its hard to evaluate
Tetriste [-\]: something like l10 k12 l9 k8 l6 
]
;B[go]C[Tetriste [-\]: hum
Tetriste [-\]: what's that
]
;W[hp]C[Vizsla [2d\]: no idea
therookie [5k\]: h5 h4 g2 h3 f1 
Vizsla [2d\]: w better after the exchange?
]
;B[kj]C[Tetriste [-\]: maybe there was some kind of squeeze so b wanted to trade
Vizsla [2d\]: k12 only move
Tetriste [-\]: well there's l11 and l12
]
;W[jh]
;B[kn]C[elementc [?\]: this doesn't work for black
elementc [?\]: so far
elementc [?\]: according to myungwan
jbai [4d\]: B don't have enough libs in the center
play234 [-\]: wow came in this room at such an exciting part in the game
smonds3 [3d\]: black flailing or big plan?
happyax [10k\]: bd6 c5 e8 f8 f7?
Illyria [?\]: I wonder if b is in byo yomi now
]
;W[ln]
;B[ko]C[jbai [4d\]: H5
Tartarichi [-\]: black will be pro?
costco [1k\]: id bet on white here
azazil [3d\]: Well "pro"
Tatakau: isnt our talking  distracting them? or do they have our comments blocked?
costco [1k\]: they cant see
smonds3 [3d\]: ha. they are playing live
jbai [4d\]: They play on the real board
Tatakau: oh
azazil [3d\]: The AGA can call the winners whatever they like, they're not truly going to be pros in the eyes of the Asian go community because they're not at that level.
jbai [4d\]: AGA agent broadcasts the game
dullah12 [3k\]: they arnt playing here even if they were they wouldndt be able to see r comments
azazil [3d\]: This is just being replayed
Tartarichi [-\]: ok
Tartarichi [-\]: thx
Tetriste [-\]: well AGA can call them whatever they like and they'll be playing in pro tournaments whether you like it or not
azazil [3d\]: All those big north American pro events?! Oooh the .... and the ..., and don't forget the ....
Tetriste [-\]: no
azazil [3d\]: oh yeah, we don't have pro events
jbai [4d\]: In go, or chess, pro or not means less and less
Tetriste [-\]: they are officially granted access in korean pro tournaments
svartrev [5k\]: azazil, isn't there some sort of Asian accreditation going along with the AGA ? Like Korean go association certifying that AGA pros are the real deal or something?
elementc [?\]: this game is still playable for both
elementc [?\]: and complicated
Tetriste [-\]: that's written in their clauses
costco [1k\]: can you be pro in two places at once? like an AGA pro and a chinese pro
costco [1k\]: or do you have to be a citizen
azazil [3d\]: Yes, I think that is the biggest upside to winning this, US "pros" will be able to go on exchange with Korea and participate in some korean pro events I believe
Goprince [4d\]: cant be pro in 2 associations
namaste [3d\]: b can possibly sacrify and win
Tetriste [-\]: not some, they can enter the pro events as they want, because their pro community will recognize them as pros
jbai [4d\]: There are about 2000 kids (<18) in China, who can easily be top 5 in AGA.  And they are not recognized as pro.  Pro rank has its historical role, but will fade out (I think)
Goprince [4d\]: needs to profit alot from that sacrifice then
Tsuijin [2d\]: myungwan declared this game will last a longggg time...
azazil [3d\]: Are all domestic events open to them? Because that is not the case with most domestic tournaments even for pros from China & Japan
Tetriste [-\]: the only some exchange part you are referring to is that they will spend time with pros during the first couple months after winning this tournament
jbai [4d\]: Long for black only
azazil [3d\]: The reality is that none of the US homegrown talent can compete against korean pros
costco [1k\]: might change in the future
Tetriste [-\]: the requirements to enter those events will probably be the same as the ones for chinese pros
azazil [3d\]: Hopefully it will raise the level of play here in the US, but slapping a label of "pro" on someone doesn't mean they are at the level that label suggests for asian pros
jbai [4d\]: Talent wise they can.  THey jsut don;t have the resources and intensity
]
;W[hr]C[costco [1k\]: especialy if we continue to take US go seriously
athene [5k?\]: well it is a start for the US every system has to have a place to begin
svartrev [5k\]: They have a korean pro commenting, right? Is there anybody from Korean side that will be assuring that the winners are on the same level as Korean new pros ?
Ukasuhs [5d?\]: go seigen appeared from china when there was no pro system in china...
Lynx [1d\]: b should have gotten h2 imo
Tetriste [-\]: and I think it's funny you guys don't think these guys are far from pro level
azazil [3d\]: Right... and Go Seigen went to study full time in Japan where there was a pro system
Tetriste [-\]: you think they are far from pro levels*
jbai [4d\]: Top pros can p[lay them on H2 at least
Ukasuhs [5d?\]: ha
Ukasuhs [5d?\]: he had no teacher when he stared
Tetriste [-\]: as they can play any 1p pro with H"
elementc [?\]: black has E14 any time
Tetriste [-\]: H2*
Ukasuhs [5d?\]: for a while
elementc [?\]: to force
jbai [4d\]: PLay 10 H2 games with top pros, these two will lose
Tetriste [-\]: and mind you, Andy Liu already won against strong pros
jbai [4d\]: once in a while
azazil [3d\]: I realize I sound like a grinch, but there seems to be a lot of wishful thinking going on this
azazil [3d\]: A couple games
Goprince [4d\]: which storng pros did andy liu beat?
elementc [?\]: some japanese 9ps
jbai [4d\]: In the difference of H@, it is about 80/20 chance
Goprince [4d\]: ok so not sorng pros =/
FlameBlade [-\]: hmmm.  E1 is sente. against the corner
jbai [4d\]: H2
azazil [3d\]: Nobody truly strong, as in famous or title holder
Goprince [4d\]: strong*
Vizsla [2d\]: some japanese 9ps never won a tournament
Tabemasu [7d?\]: its insane to think a new pro system will produce the same quality of pro as systems that have been established for many years already
Tetriste [-\]: you're asking me a good one, I don't remember the names of every pro beaten by amateurs
elementc [?\]: it took korea and china both about 40 years
Tetriste [-\]: I don't recall, for instance, the 9p Aguilar beat
azazil [3d\]: Obviously I want to see the US get better at go and eventually I hope we have pros. But how are we going to get money to support pros being pros?
Goprince [4d\]: j4 h5 j2?
elementc [?\]: I agree with Tabe
elementc [?\]: silly to cry about it
azazil [3d\]: If the new US pros can't dedicate themselves to go full time its not clear what the label means, but do we have enough sponsorship for that?
ennuistic [2d\]: resign?
azazil [3d\]: Enough public support for a pro league in the US?
Uberdude [4d?\]: first korean pros to korean dominance of world go took about 4 decades
Ukasuhs [5d?\]: nie weiping was the pioneer of chinese go... and that wasnt very long ago when japan was finally overtaken
Tabemasu [7d?\]: how can there be a pro league in the US with only 2 US pros? :)
Ukasuhs [5d?\]: theres really no reason to think that the us will for some reason lag behind for more than 20 years
]
;B[el]C[jbai [4d\]: Let's not go to far on the topics
azazil [3d\]: Yes, but in both cases you had a lot more institutional support for go. Money for tournaments, pro leagues, etc.
Tetriste [-\]: who said there will be a pro league right after this?
jbai [4d\]: IN Go or CHess
athene [5k?\]: azazil you are getting ahead of yourself. we have one baby step and you want the system to run a marthon
azazil [3d\]: Not to mention a huge number of people who already played
osvaldo [1d\]: tetriste: he beat two. yo kagen and hasegawa
jbai [4d\]: the difference of strength is reflected on the chance of winning
Tetriste [-\]: and why are you folks saying US, America is a bit wider than that I believe
jbai [4d\]: Pro or not
Tabemasu [7d?\]: i guess the aga is thinking that they have to start somewhere, im not sure it will be successful either
Arhiman [3d\]: e9 .
jbai [4d\]: 9p or not, not that a big deal
Arhiman [3d\]: ?
Arhiman [3d\]: no
azazil [3d\]: athene: obviously we have to start somewhere, but that doesn't mean it might not to be too early for some of those steps
Tabemasu [7d?\]: yes, it could be too early
athene [5k?\]: this is the perfect time
Tetriste [-\]: well of course, the 9p was a weakling, not worth being a pro
]
;W[fm]C[Tabemasu [7d?\]: or it might not be too early
Tabemasu [7d?\]: we should just wait and see
Tabemasu [7d?\]: lets talk about the game
Tabemasu [7d?\]: haha
Tetriste [-\]: the only real pros are those who can't be beat by your common strong go player
jbai [4d\]: REsign now?
Lynx [1d\]: b now lives no?
Goprince [4d\]: no
Tetriste [-\]: I think there's what, 3-4 pros in all Asia?
Ukasuhs [5d?\]: lol tetriste. you have officially entered circular logic
Fukurokuji [1k\]: b dead i think
]
;B[fl]C[elementc [?\]: pretty much any korean 7d can beat a korean pro
azazil [3d\]: Was Tabe from Europe or the US...?
Goprince [4d\]: semeai
Snif [3k\]: D8
yithril [-\]: there are amateurs as strong as pros
Tabemasu [7d?\]: im from the us
yithril [-\]: they just dont wantto be pros because they do other things in life
Fukurokuji [1k\]: f9 
ennuistic [2d\]: betting on c9?
spanglish [3k\]: g8
spanglish [3k\]: no wiat
Tetriste [-\]: that's the whole point of this tournament yithril
]
;W[hl]
;B[gl]C[svartrev [5k\]: There are strong ama's who can't become pros, they are too old, even though they are good enough
Tetriste [-\]: there are amateurs just as strong, and if they want to become pro, then why not?
jbai [4d\]: E9
ennuistic [2d\]: ugh.
spanglish [3k\]: e9
]
;W[ek]
;B[fk]C[elementc [?\]: because guilds are jealous of their privileges
Tetriste [-\]: what's that stupid thing about being too old to start being a pro?
]
;W[dl]C[elementc [?\]: that's why
Goprince [4d\]: its semeai
azazil [3d\]: Question for anybody truly strong here (read 7d+), is there any way this doesn't end in resign?
jbai [4d\]: Resign?
dullah12 [3k\]: b is dead
]
;B[kg]C[ennuistic [2d\]: well, i guess this is over.
Snif [3k\]: B is comitting suicide
elementc [?\]: black still has E14 push to kill and take top
spanglish [3k\]: why did b played this sequence
Tabemasu [7d?\]: its possible it won't end in resign
Goprince [4d\]: wow how is this over...
Fukurokuji [1k\]: j13 ?
ennuistic [2d\]: is it not over?
Tabemasu [7d?\]: mwk showed some variations
Goprince [4d\]: w can gain so much from sacrificing
viu30h [5k\]: theres a variation letting b kill top left taking big top
Goprince [4d\]: b*
viu30h [5k\]: than its bit better for w but pretty even
ennuistic [2d\]: i don't thinkk you can come back from this if black dies.
elementc [?\]: The M6 exchange apparently helped black make the bottom more solid so he got more points there too
Goprince [4d\]: yes
elementc [?\]: meaning the game is playable
viu30h [5k\]: a 9p showed me how xD
ennuistic [2d\]: black only solid territory is b18 and b2
Goprince [4d\]: also not clear black dies
Tetriste [-\]: a 9p would win this as black ;)
elementc [?\]: goprince myungwan made it pretty clear black was dead
Goprince [4d\]: lol troll
elementc [?\]: though that was a few moves ago
viu30h [5k\]: e14 and push through the end til c14
Uberdude [4d?\]: locally dead does not mean globally dead
Goprince [4d\]: j4 h5 j2 and and w locally no alive, needs to kill but its is ko
mathe123 [-\]: m13
Goprince [4d\]: even if many steps
Tabemasu [7d?\]: what next for white here?
Tabemasu [7d?\]: doesn't seem that easy
ennuistic [2d\]: k13 seems best for me.
Tabemasu [7d?\]: yes probably
Goprince [4d\]: ah nvm forget what i said =/
Goprince [4d\]: but j4 j2 still big sente moves
mathe123 [-\]: i see, yeah that's better
azazil [3d\]: Does anybody know who is at the top of the rankings from the qualifer so far? Andy Liu?
elementc [?\]: yes
elementc [?\]: undefeated
azazil [3d\]: figures
elementc [?\]: as far as I'm aware
viu30h [5k\]: how many games can andy lose and still get pro?
Vizsla [2d\]: se reflects our general understanding of this game
Vizsla [2d\]: check it out
Insidius [1d?\]: haha
Tetriste [-\]: andy can lose 5 games max
Insidius [1d?\]: close from what will happen :P
Tabemasu [7d?\]: so k13 k14
viu30h [5k\]: lol really?
Illyria [?\]: andy can only lose 3 games
Vizsla [2d\]: the oracle says there are no points and there shall be a seki
Goprince [4d\]: after this q8 and m7 cut is very bad aji
Tetriste [-\]: oh wait yeah, I forgot it wasn't best 3 of 5, but 2 of 3
Tetriste [-\]: so yeah 3 games
elementc [?\]: no way this will be seki
elementc [?\]: lol
]
;W[ig]C[Tabemasu [7d?\]: i think this is the only move maybe
]
;B[if]C[Insidius [1d?\]: It,s been so long are theyclose to byo-yomi?
Tetriste [-\]: 0.0
]
;W[hf]C[Illyria [?\]: I'm pretty sure b is in byo yomi
mathe123 [-\]: what's the time
]
;B[gf]C[elementc [?\]: they also have five periods of 60 seconds
Illyria [?\]: but we can't get time checks
Goprince [4d\]: big sacrifice
]
;W[jf]C[Goprince [4d\]: but thick
Goprince [4d\]: j12
]
;B[he]C[elementc [?\]: this looks like a disaster for black
Goprince [4d\]: oh fighting!
Uberdude [4d?\]: b can probably also use the aji of dead group to get something around o7
Goprince [4d\]: oh e14 next
Goprince [4d\]: lol
]
;W[jg]C[Vizsla [2d\]: b is taking everything from c14 upwards
viu30h [5k\]: ok bs taking huge top possibilities are now gone
elementc [?\]: instead of getting a solid top white is breaking in
]
;B[je]
;W[kf]C[Goprince [4d\]: omg gigantice top for b after e14
blackness2 [2d\]: well
blackness2 [2d\]: j16 aji?
Tetriste [-\]: j16 aji is annoying
grumpyjoe [-\]: just how many liberites does l14 need
blackness2 [2d\]: also, r11 looking good and lonely
Tabemasu [7d?\]: hard for w to lose now
Tabemasu [7d?\]: i think
Uberdude [4d?\]: r11 ok with the w group below having problems
Goprince [4d\]: u sure tabemasu?
Tabemasu [7d?\]: never sure :)
]
;B[cg]C[elementc [?\]: ha
Tabemasu [7d?\]: wow
Tetriste [-\]: oh wow
Vizsla [2d\]: wait
therookie [5k\]: nive
Vizsla [2d\]: what?
therookie [5k\]: nice
yithril [-\]: oh snap
Vizsla [2d\]: b dont want the top?
Tetriste [-\]: omg
Goprince [4d\]: e14 not enough so kill all lol
Vizsla [2d\]: whats this
Tabemasu [7d?\]: black is going all in
Tetriste [-\]: of course he is
Uberdude [4d?\]: karigane would approve
Tartarichi [-\]: funny
]
;W[ef]
;B[fe]C[mathe123 [-\]: insane now
Goprince [4d\]: g17 next?
Tetriste [-\]: well c10 isn't 100% safe neither after?
grumpyjoe [-\]: fun
]
;W[db]C[Uberdude [4d?\]: e16
elementc [?\]: Game over man, game over!!
Tartarichi [-\]: insane like tygem xD
]
;B[cc]C[Vizsla [2d\]: this fight started almost 60 moves ago, imagine one of them having read this far? xD
therookie [5k\]: they did
Vizsla [2d\]: yeah sure...
]
;W[ed]C[elementc [?\]: not
Tatakau: ^^
therookie [5k\]: yes
Snif [3k\]: lol
Tetriste [-\]: they didn,t :P
December [1d\]: c10 gain one lib
therookie [5k\]: they did
therookie [5k\]: tabemasu 
therookie [5k\]: did it too
Goprince [4d\]: g17 powa
Tartarichi [-\]: lol
]
;B[kk]C[elementc [?\]: reduces black's own liberty
Tetriste [-\]: is it wise to remove a libe?
Snif [3k\]: desperation
Tetriste [-\]: lib*
mathe123 [-\]: what is the plan?
Illyria [?\]: time I bet
Tabemasu [7d?\]: i dont know blacks plan
]
;W[jl]
;B[mm]C[Goprince [4d\]: more forcing
Tetriste [-\]: maybe b saw something
blackness2 [2d\]: hrmm
Snif [3k\]: or not
blackness2 [2d\]: this looks annoying
mathe123 [-\]: mmmh... this looks like a fight, but I'm not sure
GandalfTW [2d\]: N8
Tetriste [-\]: well in a way, b might kill r6
]
;W[ml]
;B[nl]C[mathe123 [-\]: wow
blackness2 [2d\]: now r11 doesn't look so lonely
blackness2 [2d\]: lol
]
;W[mk]C[elementc [?\]: and yet he isn't getting the top side like he otherwise would have
elementc [?\]: so perhaps it's fair for white anyway
mathe123 [-\]: this ain't going to work
USGO1 [-\]: black resigns here
Tetriste [-\]: :/
Tabemasu [7d?\]: ah
elementc [?\]: cool
elementc [?\]: cool cool
svartrev [5k\]: whaaaaaat?!
Tetriste [-\]: I guess that's how it is
Tartarichi [-\]: thx
elementc [?\]: it is a ladder after all
mathe123 [-\]: thx
Tetriste [-\]: well Gansheng Shi is the other hope, although Jianing Gan might win against Eric
Goprince [4d\]: no fighting spirit
elementc [?\]: Eric had a lot of fighting spirit in this game
Goprince [4d\]: can probly kill r6
elementc [?\]: but he doesn't get the top
elementc [?\]: and white can still invade upper right
Tetriste [-\]: in gote, that leaves h15 lonely
elementc [?\]: and reduce
Goprince [4d\]: h15 many eyes
mathe123 [-\]: the problem: he focused too much on the lost group
Goprince [4d\]: lazy resign
Tetriste [-\]: it's kinda lame that be got in this situation to start with, game looked nice for him
viu30h [5k\]: b13 super overplay
Goprince [4d\]: m8 m7 n6 m9 m5 m8 o9 
viu30h [5k\]: could someone tell me when the commentary on tygem starts again? the 9p said it ll be 35 min (an hour the tiime he said)   cause he thaught the game would still be going several hours
nhquang [1d\]: does this have any link to watch?
Goprince [4d\]: id prefer black here
farmer [4d\]: o10 maybe better than o9
])
