(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[AGA]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[5400]OT[5x60 byo-yomi]
GN[1st AGA-TYGEMGO Pro Finals - 3B, game 3]PW[Hugh Zhang]PB[GanSheng Shi]WR[6d]BR[7d]DT[2012-08-01]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]US[Dennis Wheeler]C[USGO1 [-\]: http://www.usgo.org/aga-professional-system
odnihs [-\]: GO HUGH
]RE[B+9.50]
;B[pc]
;W[qe]
;B[cd]
;W[pq]
;B[dq]
;W[po]C[dosaku [?\]: shusaku style ?!
antiidle [11k?\]: gangsheng is canadian?
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: Is there live broadcast of this by any chance?
odnihs [-\]: no live stream
diethxbye [1d\]: Andy Liu lose?
dosaku [?\]: the famous kosumi at d15 would be nice
odnihs [-\]: no he beat eric lui 2-0
Yukura [-\]: no
Yukura [-\]: andy liu has today off
diethxbye [1d\]: but its final?
Yukura [-\]: hugh zhang and gansheng shi are 1-1
eric1010 [1k\]: pro ?
Yukura [-\]: i think right?
]
;B[iq]C[Mef [-\]: it's the final tournament (as opposed to the qualifying tournaments)
Yukura [-\]: its best of 3 matches andy beat eric twice so he didnt have to play the third match with eric
phantomas [3k\]: j3 slow
diethxbye [1d\]: j3 is ok
]
;W[co]C[ARRGHHH: wow, w is nuts
Yukura [-\]: theres nothing wrong with it at all :) just the opening 
alfi [4k\]: c7
phantomas [3k\]: KO
Huldioho [10k\]: :)
phantomas [3k\]: i read get strong at .. kibitz at senseis
ARRGHHH: f2
Geng: j3 is reason for c5
ARRGHHH: these are 7p or 7d ?
alfi [4k\]: d
]
;B[dl]C[weiqidevil [-\]: wasn't Hugh Zhang 6d?
Yukura [-\]: its the u.s pro test 
ARRGHHH: ok what is the best joseki here
Yukura [-\]: thoughi thnk the name defenitlythrows people off :)
ARRGHHH: let's hear move sequences, people !
odnihs [-\]: yes he's 6.94 aga
phantomas [3k\]: w e5 absultely must
weiqidevil [-\]: ah ok
alfi [4k\]: no e5 wrong move
alfi [4k\]: when f5
]
;W[ep]C[alfi [4k\]: but e5 could be played
alfi [4k\]: oh
ARRGHHH: cut ?
alfi [4k\]: mean e4
alfi [4k\]: e3, f4
]
;B[dp]
;W[do]
;B[eo]
;W[dm]C[alfi [4k\]: f8?
no1herE [2d\]: f5 
Terach [?\]: B may be reluctant to play f4, as after e6 etc j3 does not seem optimally placed
]
;B[fo]C[no1herE [2d\]: yay! 
alfi [4k\]: good call
]
;W[em]
;B[cl]
;W[cm]C[alfi [4k\]: d12
]
;B[el]C[alfi [4k\]: w looks overconcentrated
arunasr [?\]: Why cant they stream this game like a regular game so we can go back to the beginning and play the moves going forward???
roujiamo [5d\]: is someone commenting this on tygem today?
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: You can go to options -> and clone it or such
arunasr [?\]: Hi IllCoyote:  Would cloning enable me to go back? 
shipshape [?\]: Commenting will be on Tygem Korea1 server starting at 10:30am EDT.
roujiamo [5d\]: thanks shipshape, i will spend some time trying to get on to korea 1 then :p
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: Yes arunasr
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: what's EDT stand for? 
roujiamo [5d\]: hoho first time, that never happens!
]
;W[fm]
;B[bp]
;W[fl]
;B[fk]C[arunasr [?\]: I never knew about that.  Thanks ILLCoyote.  I still wonder why they don't broadcast the gaame in the form I see it when cloned?
]
;W[gk]
;B[fj]C[Redjoker [3d\]: g10
]
;W[gj]
;B[fi]C[nickBlake [?\]: Eastern Daylight Time
]
;W[ed]C[alfi [4k\]: very good result for b
Terach [?\]: jThis does not look like a good result for w
alfi [4k\]: d15
]
;B[ee]C[grumpyjoe [-\]: where are the other games?
]
;W[cc]
;B[dd]
;W[dc]C[grumpyjoe [-\]: this is the only one for this round?
]
;B[fe]
;W[fc]C[liusasori [3d\]: 7d
alfi [4k\]: g18
alfi [4k\]: 17
]
;B[bc]
;W[bb]
;B[bd]C[Terach [?\]: Huge side
]
;W[nc]C[osvaldo [1d\]: surprising move no? top doesnt seem that interesting
alfi [4k\]: imagined m3
alfi [4k\]: or l3
Terach [?\]: Perhaps w is rattled.
]
;B[pe]
;W[pf]
;B[oe]
;W[qd]
;B[oc]
;W[qc]
;B[hc]
;W[hb]C[ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: So what's this about commenting?  Only on tygem?
U505 [7k\]: for professional commentary i think is tygem
U505 [7k\]: for best kibitz stay in Kgs
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: I'd like to hear the commentary, so what's EDT?  GmT + ?
Bladecrest [-\]: -4
U505 [7k\]: http://www.tygembaduk.com/
U505 [7k\]: there is the place
]
;B[ib]
;W[gb]C[ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: thanks
]
;B[ic]C[alfi [4k\]: n16
]
;W[of]
;B[nf]
;W[ng]
;B[mf]C[U505 [7k\]: high and wide
]
;W[mg]
;B[lf]C[alfi [4k\]: j5?
U505 [7k\]: can W play h15 ?
U505 [7k\]: or is too silly overplay
klabauter [2d\]: r9 or l3 bigger?
U505 [7k\]: i can only guess h12 m3 or g16 
U505 [7k\]: r9? L3 better, isnt it?
U505 [7k\]: or M3
dosaku [?\]: k4 maybe
alfi [4k\]: k4 or j5
]
;W[pl]C[U505 [7k\]: q8 :-)
dosaku [?\]: or that :-)
]
;B[eb]C[U505 [7k\]: i see why kyus get in trouble all the time
U505 [7k\]: we want everything
]
;W[db]C[gnarf [1k\]: yeah. "first buy the land, than start the house"
]
;B[qq]C[U505 [7k\]: submarine attack!
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: or a big bad wolf will blow your house down haha
gnarf [1k\]: ^^
U505 [7k\]: see, as soon as someone builds a fleet carrier it gets submarined
protoday: how many rounds left are there?
klabauter [2d\]: r4 
]
;W[lg]C[U505 [7k\]: http://www.usgo.org/news/category/events-aga-tygemgo-online-pro-prelim/
blurb1: http://www.usgo.org/aga-professional-system
roujiamo [5d\]: will the pros end up with enough money to earn a living?
papabob [9k\]: Did Yang and Lui play last night? What was the result?
roujiamo [5d\]: or will it rely on them doing well in asian competitions?
]
;B[kg]C[SteveDC [5k\]: haha i fear that last one will take a while..
roujiamo [5d\]: they play tomorrow
U505 [7k\]: i think they relay on their tenukis by now
U505 [7k\]: rely*
roujiamo [5d\]: yeah i agree dc, but thats kinda the point
]
;W[kf]C[roujiamo [5d\]: if they can't earn enough money to live and have to work then how will this system help them improve?
U505 [7k\]: you are right, buts too long to discuss now
U505 [7k\]: * I think
roujiamo [5d\]: ok fair enough, is there a link with details somehwerE?
]
;B[nd]C[U505 [7k\]: see link above
]
;W[kh]
;B[jg]C[U505 [7k\]: http://www.usgo.org/news/category/events-aga-tygemgo-online-pro-prelim/ blurb1: http://www.usgo.org/aga-professional-system
SteveDC [5k\]: man as white i'd allready be happy to push along with L12 a bit more and then make some massive moyo with anything like K4
roujiamo [5d\]: thanks, not sure they really clarify my question but thanks anyway :)
SteveDC [5k\]: ah but that's what white's doing...
SanDePan: is b's e17 remove g16 weakness?
U505 [7k\]: i think you cannot push from behind for too long, it ends in trouble
goejgo [13k\]: hi
roujiamo [5d\]: these guys have kgs nicks?
U505 [7k\]: m15 !
iceweasel [-\]: p12 or m11?
U505 [7k\]: h12 
]
;W[qp]
;B[oq]
;W[jh]
;B[ih]C[isbhal [4d\]: Q2 : big
Huldioho [10k\]: j13 :)
U505 [7k\]: H12, now or never
isbhal [4d\]: h12 ? lol
ARRGHHH: funny :p
Huldioho [10k\]: hmm
]
;W[ig]
;B[jf]
;W[ii]
;B[hh]C[ARRGHHH: should choose to sacrifice l14 group
brembrem [7k\]: u20
Huldioho [10k\]: T19
Minjhou [-\]: i13
brembrem [7k\]: v21
ARRGHHH: l7
U505 [7k\]:  q2 
karaklis [6k\]: n5
ARRGHHH: OOH !
blurb1: 9p comment for this game will start in 20 min on tygem korea1 server
roujiamo [5d\]: will the 9p comment from beginning or just start from current?
]
;W[jp]C[ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: nice, 9p commentary
]
;B[ip]
;W[jo]C[mmp [9k\]: Is it just me or is white well behind even if he takes the centre
gtrabbit [3k\]: seems close to me
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: White's not looking too bad
Reise [12k\]: pros?
Reise [12k\]: from japan?
]
;B[og]C[iceweasel [-\]: p13 cut might support invasion
gtrabbit [3k\]: black still only with one solid corner
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: Reise: It's the US Pro qualifier finals thing
Kanin [-\]: q2 is a Hugh point
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: Actually, that brings a question..
Reise [12k\]: its pro exam?
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: Yea
Reise [12k\]: cool
]
;W[oh]
;B[ji]C[ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: Question:  So it's the US Pro exam.. ok, well how does it work?  Like how do we know who makes it to pro?
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: Only top 3 will make it or something?
Bauer [1k\]: i believe. top 2
]
;W[ki]
;B[jj]C[ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: Ah, just read
]
;W[kj]C[roujiamo [5d\]: give it 10 years top 2 might be 5ds :)
]
;B[pr]
;W[pp]
;B[nr]C[U505 [7k\]: l2 
]
;W[qr]C[Bauer [1k\]: O5 ?
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: So these guys are 7dan AGA right now?
December [1d\]: heh
U505 [7k\]: o5 or k9
]
;B[mp]C[U505 [7k\]: oh, the rat head
]
;W[gi]
;B[gh]
;W[hi]C[U505 [7k\]: is the smallest triangle
Bauer [1k\]: time for N6
U505 [7k\]: white is getting smaller
Illyria [?\]: is there a problem at f12?
roujiamo [5d\]: w might be 6d looking at the site
klabauter [2d\]: f12 possible if tebnuki?
roujiamo [5d\]: 6.95d
Viheton [-\]: http://www.usgo.org/aga-professional-system if i understood the chart right only one pro?
bubba [4d\]: two pros
roujiamo [5d\]: look lower down the page viheton
Viheton [-\]: ah nothing readet little more and noticed two players turning pro
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: 4.)  Under "Format"
bubba [4d\]: double elim tournament, winner of top bracket and bottom bracket each make pro
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: "The results of the finals will result in two players being promoted to the rank of Professional 1 Dan and two players selected as seeds into next year's finals"
]
;B[bl]C[ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: how strong is AGA rank?  If they are 7dan AGA, what would they be KGS?  8-9d?
]
;W[mn]C[Illyria [?\]: AGA 7d is a large range
bobstep [5k\]: Liu 9d, don't know about others
Illyria [?\]: lui and sun both have 9d accounts, too
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: Hmm.. I would of n6 instead of b8..
mmp [9k\]: B8 preempts white F12
Ojisama [-\]: Gansheng Shi has a 7.8 rating
Ojisama [-\]: Hugh Zhang is at 6.95
kbag [?\]: canadians tend to have low aga ratings
mecisa [4k\]: if b played n6 isnt w invade b 's moyo
bubba [4d\]: could realistically see a canadian pro out of this tournament
kaworu [2k\]: anybody know when the commentary in tygem is going to start?
bobstep [5k\]: already started I think
kbag [?\]: now
]
;B[hn]
;W[im]C[Minjhou [-\]: can someone kndly copy&paste pro comentaries?
]
;B[in]C[kbag [?\]: it's audio
Minjhou [-\]: oh
osvaldo [1d\]: game looks slightly good for black no?
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: Yea
ThiGar [3k\]: Do you know of any realistic way to live around b12, using the negative agis of cuts f12 and/or d15?
Vizsla [2d\]: no way
ThiGar [3k\]: ok
mmp [9k\]: not after b8
gtrabbit [3k\]: mmp: i was just thinking that
iceweasel [-\]: less realistic than living around r10
Bauer [1k\]: What happens with b g8 ?
mmp [9k\]: Pain for white. That's why white is taking his time.
mmp [9k\]: If white blocks black's worm at k6, black cuts at G8 and vice versa
]
;W[jn]
;B[hl]C[ThiGar [3k\]: ?
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: h8?
U505 [7k\]: g8 didnt work
mecisa [4k\]: i thought he ll play g8
mmp [9k\]: White could have responded at h8
mecisa [4k\]: g8 h8 g7
Illyria [?\]: uhhh, if w responded at h8, he loses the left group
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: ^
mmp [9k\]: yep
mmp [9k\]: J8 was a really nasty move by black
mmp [9k\]: not j8, j6
Vizsla [2d\]: how is this better than g8?
Illyria [?\]: gansheng shi is clearly trying to win without breaking the spirit of his opponent
Bauer [1k\]: H8 also threatens k7
mecisa [4k\]: g8 dosent work
Vizsla [2d\]: w can g8 now
Vizsla [2d\]: g8 does work
U505 [7k\]: g8 = suicide
Vizsla [2d\]: did
Geng: g8 is a trade of g9 for f5
Illyria [?\]: g8 g7 h8 h7 h9 and w loses those stones
bert [3d\]: g8 h7 k9 
]
;W[gl]
;B[hm]
;W[jk]C[Vizsla [2d\]: so much time for the normal move :\\
]
;B[jq]C[Vizsla [2d\]: how is this result better than b cutting at g8 in the first place
Illyria [?\]: sente?
]
;W[ps]
;B[ab]C[U505 [7k\]: the cut at g8 ended in gote and shortage of liberties for black
]
;W[ba]
;B[ha]
;W[fb]
;B[fd]
;W[ec]C[U505 [7k\]: maybe b didnt want to sacrifice f5  or j4 , i guess
]
;B[kp]C[Viheton [-\]: g8 cut didnt work for b 
U505 [7k\]: more points on the side than center
]
;W[qb]C[mecisa [4k\]: first i tought same but it works
]
;B[pb]C[U505 [7k\]: i can only read few forcing moves
Viheton [-\]: ah indeed
U505 [7k\]: may end in H5 atari
]
;W[bm]C[Viheton [-\]: noe i see the other variation which actually works :D
Viheton [-\]: g8 g7 h8 h7 h9 
]
;B[bj]
;W[lo]C[U505 [7k\]: white goes h8
U505 [7k\]: not g7
]
;B[il]C[U505 [7k\]: black loses F5
bert [3d\]: r19 is double sente, no?
]
;W[lp]
;B[lq]
;W[jm]
;B[jl]
;W[kl]
;B[hk]
;W[cp]
;B[cq]
;W[ij]C[mecisa [4k\]: if w goes h8 w losess e7 gtoup
]
;B[qa]
;W[ra]
;B[pa]
;W[sb]C[mecisa [4k\]: group
]
;B[or]
;W[pd]
;B[od]C[palapiku [-\]: the winner of this game becomes pro?
bubba [4d\]: no, but loser gets knocked out
]
;W[np]
;B[mq]C[bubba [4d\]: gets pushed into lower bracket
]
;W[bo]
;B[bq]
;W[mo]C[palapiku [-\]: oh, the winner has to play either bbw or the winner of the losers' bracket
]
;B[op]C[Yukontodd [-\]: winner this game plays one more set for pro, though.
]
;W[oo]
;B[rq]
;W[rr]
;B[rs]C[palapiku [-\]: no nevermind
]
;W[rp]
;B[os]C[Illyria [?\]: winner of this game has to play andy for pro status
]
;W[ke]C[roujiamo [5d\]: b won a lot
palapiku [-\]: and if he loses, he plays the winner of the losers' bracket for pro status
palapiku [-\]: right?
Illyria [?\]: no, has to win two matches in the losers' bracket
Mef [-\]: the loser enters the loser's bracket, the winner of that bracket is the second qualifier
bert [3d\]: this wouls make much more sense, had w taken q19 
palapiku [-\]: ok thanks
ThiGar [3k\]: Two players get promoted to pro: the two players who advance to the finals (best of 3 games): namely bbw & the current game's winner. 
ThiGar [3k\]: *present game*
Vizsla [2d\]: so both finalist turn pro?
ThiGar [3k\]: yes
Vizsla [2d\]: kind of bad for the show 
Idoc [2d\]: b+10 right?
palapiku [-\]: that's not true ThiGar
nickBlake [?\]: loser of the final match still has to win the losers bracket after
Illyria [?\]: http://www.usgo.org/aga-professional-system
Illyria [?\]: here's the brackets
palapiku [-\]: and assuming the winner of this match loses to andy, he also goes into the losers bracket
palapiku [-\]: so they might have to play each other again
Vizsla [2d\]: so those 2 pros will be able to enter things like lf cup and other international tournaments?
Vizsla [2d\]: lg
U505 [7k\]: yes
nickBlake [?\]: if they can afford entrance/travel. i dont think they have announced yet if AGA/Tygem will fully sponser them for travel and entrance
U505 [7k\]: Kgs should organize a pro-kibitz league
palapiku [-\]: is andy actually pro-level strong
gloooomph [1k\]: andy often beats pros
gloooomph [1k\]: he often loses too though
U505 [7k\]: someone will pay the expenses, dont worry
palapiku [-\]: seems good enough for 1p
gloooomph [1k\]: 1p in asia is very strong lately because it is so competitive
Vizsla [2d\]: recent korean and chinese 1p are crazy strong tho
gloooomph [1k\]: Japan 1ps are super strong too altely aren't they?
U505 [7k\]: as usual
bobstep [5k\]: need a little 'jaws' music here
palapiku [-\]: it won't be very impressive if the new pros just lose 100% of their international matches
U505 [7k\]: wich is a copy of la mer de Debussy
ThiGar [3k\]: Thanks for clarifying palapiku & nickBlake. This "bracket" thing is quite unusual to me. Guess all japanese, korean & chinese tournaments function with this bracket system.
Mef [-\]: The pro qualifiers from the US/Canada will play in pro tournaments in korea for a year...If nothing else I'm sure that will raise the level of their game even more
bubba [4d\]: The new pros will almost certainly lose 100% of their international matches...they're playing champion calibre players there
bubba [4d\]: the big question will be how they do against a korean 1p
Mef [-\]: a year's worth of data will be acquired to let us know (=
bubba [4d\]: quite
palapiku [-\]: ohh i didn't realize it was US and Canada, I thought it was US only
Illyria [?\]: yeah, gansheng shi is canadian
Vizsla [2d\]: where are the mexican pros xD
bubba [4d\]: 3 of the six remainding players are canadian
gloooomph [1k\]: andy lui does have a histroy of beating people he was 100% sure to lose to
spanglish [3k\]: the korean 1p are already 9p level
baian [1d\]: all of them ?
U505 [7k\]: Vizla, the citizenship doesnt make any player stronger or weaker
spanglish [3k\]: and they came out stronger every year
ThiGar [3k\]: In any case,  the first year, there will only be two pros in the association. All this will have some more significance in a few years.
Vizsla [2d\]: that was meant to be a joke
kitsune [-\]: k16 all b needs?
Yukontodd [-\]: Two canadians were picked by the CGA to compete, plus two qualified online.
mmp [9k\]: If black caps this at L16 I don't see what white can do
palapiku [-\]: ah
palapiku [-\]: seems like CGA is becoming more relevant :)
bubba [4d\]: Does anyone know how the Eric Lui - Jing  Yang game is going?
palapiku [-\]: CGA is pretty useless here in Vancouver, there're no affiliated clubs
Illyria [?\]: it happens this afternoon, bubba
bubba [4d\]: ah...ty
Vizsla [2d\]: cga is too pixelated for my taste
Mef [-\]: CGA organized an online league you could play in though, no?
Yukontodd [-\]: CGA seems to be just coming out of its slump, I hope.  ie: there's some dedicated people starting to do stuff.
palapiku [-\]: yes, they have an online league
Yukontodd [-\]: AGA members welcome to join it, too.:)
palapiku [-\]: and i think free memberships?
Yukontodd [-\]: Yeah, cga membership currently free.
palapiku [-\]: maybe i should have played in the online league. Missed my chance of becoming pro :)
Firebird [3k\]: hmm, they could have wrapped this game up with about 160 moves
U505 [7k\]: B may have to sacrifice something here
]
;B[je]C[Illyria [?\]: w only needs to make maybe 15 points here to win
U505 [7k\]: not that much
Viheton [-\]: if white gets anything from there white wins
Illyria [?\]: my count had w down by about 12
U505 [7k\]: black may trade n14 
Viheton [-\]: then b lose
U505 [7k\]: if W k16 ?
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: I think black is fine
arunasr [?\]: I don't see how B can afford to sacrifice anything here.
kitsune [-\]: k16 l16 
Yukontodd [-\]: if k16 black just cuts
indianayk [4d\]: n16 is the only play left?
iceweasel [-\]: n16 n17
mmp [9k\]: no n16, l16
mmp [9k\]: would be balck's best reply
kitsune [-\]: n16 m16 
palapiku [-\]: i wonder if w really saw something or if these are desperation moves
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: desperation
gnarf [1k\]: n16 l16 looks more like suicide to me
geuhjeh: n16 l 16 doesnt work
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: and/or probing for a mistake from black
kitsune [-\]: m16 is bad
mmp [9k\]: no just saw that :P
Geng: n16 - n17 probably
U505 [7k\]: m16 
Bauer [1k\]: b leads by more than 5 points
indianayk [4d\]: n16,n17,m15,O15,k16,j15,j16,h16,m17,O18,h16,  
Illyria [?\]: you have h16 twice there
Illyria [?\]: I assume you meant h15 the first time
indianayk [4d\]: the first h16 should h15
palapiku [-\]: hah, the only two people with non-asian names had to play each other in the first round of the losers' bracket
Mysto [?\]: and if B plays m15 instead of N17?
palapiku [-\]: so one of them got eliminated right away, and the other in the next round
indianayk [4d\]: m15,L16,
Mysto [?\]: doesnt work
Mysto [?\]: i dont think
Mysto [?\]: B can keep pushing safely
indianayk [4d\]: what is your next move after L16?
Mysto [?\]: m16
Huldioho [10k\]: hallo
Geng: n16, n17, m15:: m16, n15, o16, L16, m17
Huldioho [10k\]: somethings going on here??
protoday: big terrortories
Terach [?\]: White searching desperately for something, otherwise he loses.
klabauter [2d\]: b+ huge
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: seems whatever white throws black should be able to counter
Terach [?\]: I make black about 8 ahead.
Mysto [?\]: but, i could be wrong indianayk
Geng: 20+ at this moment
klabauter [2d\]: yes 15-20
learngofan [-\]: b+14
Terach [?\]: 104 ish to 91 ish minus komi
aceace [2k\]: 108^86
bert [3d\]: after m17 in geng's seq, w plays k16, j15, o18
]
;W[md]C[Terach [?\]: But I am in a very relaxed state.
aceace [2k\]: 108^^96
klabauter [2d\]: no counting just view offline play it out and score..
protoday: LOL
ARRGHHH: w desperate here
]
;B[ld]C[YumyNugget: w gonna win regardless.
Minjhou [-\]: fast B play...
protoday: irregardless of result here, b won
Theo9000 [3k\]: ummm no
Wasp [-\]: huh?
Theo9000 [3k\]: game is close so this matters
Wasp [-\]: you guys should count...
Huldioho [10k\]: is there still a chance for w?
Wasp [-\]: if w kills something
Wasp [-\]: then w wins
Theo9000 [3k\]: ^
YumyNugget: I predict w +3-8
Wasp [-\]: if w fails to kill
klabauter [2d\]: good point to resign?
Wasp [-\]: then w loses
]
;W[kd]C[Geng: oops skipped black's move in my sequence
]
;B[mc]C[ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: err
Draugar [2k\]: what?
Geng: it's k16 and white m17
protoday: w81
Draugar [2k\]: L16 was...unexpected :p
ARRGHHH: g16
palapiku [-\]: looks finished
indianayk [4d\]: why w not played at m15 instead of L16?
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: brain fart
]
;W[hf]C[palapiku [-\]: :(
CarterKane [5d\]: b ahead for 10-15 points
palapiku [-\]: this cannot work...
ARRGHHH: tenuki, dying in gote
protoday: w+31
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: Black pass =P
palapiku [-\]: yeah tenuki
protoday: *b+31
dosaku [?\]: well, this is defenitely sente
U505 [7k\]: 1 good comment
bubba [4d\]: Indiana: m15 n17 n15 o15 l16 k16 m17 n18 
Theo9000 [3k\]: doesnt black have to respond?
Vitharr [1d\]: indianayk : m15, n17, n15, o15, l16, o17
CarterKane [5d\]: it doesn't hurt to answer this, since black already won
]
;B[gf]C[U505 [7k\]: wait
Vitharr [1d\]: bubba was faster :'(
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: yea, best to answer =P  Just would be hilarious (and a little rude)
CarterKane [5d\]: g16
CarterKane [5d\]: w has yose at g16 now
]
;W[lc]C[kitsune [-\]: really? doesn't look like g16 works
]
;B[me]C[CarterKane [5d\]: g1g17 k16
kitsune [-\]: i assumed g16 was w's aiming point
CarterKane [5d\]: g16 g17 k16
YumyNugget: that does work brother
YumyNugget: doesn't*
U505 [7k\]: hes going there
ARRGHHH: white will disgrace the zhang name
protoday: LOL
]
;W[gd]C[U505 [7k\]: see
CarterKane [5d\]: Frank Zhang will be disappointed
dosaku [?\]: oh, can't cut
protoday: I know a guy  called frank zhang
U505 [7k\]: give him a chance
Ojisama [-\]: SE is giving the count using aga
ARRGHHH: cut
CarterKane [5d\]: if you've read the son of neptune book
Ojisama [-\]: while they're using japanese
Ojisama [-\]: so the game is kinda closish
bert [3d\]: h15 is good enough
liusasori [3d\]: h16 
protoday: everybody quiet please, they are playing a game here...
indianayk [4d\]: Who is frank? Hugh's father?
ARRGHHH: just cut, white does not deserve the extra points
Vitharr [1d\]: cant cut
protoday: cut not woking
Theo9000 [3k\]: ^
liusasori [3d\]: cut doesn't work
Theo9000 [3k\]: if black cuts he dies
Theo9000 [3k\]: gf
]
;B[he]C[indianayk [4d\]: over
bert [3d\]: g15 
protoday: is either of them pro?
palapiku [-\]: not yet
woodrose [?\]: Not even
liusasori [3d\]: the winner of this game will play the final against andy liu to promote first american pro
]
;W[hd]
;B[id]
;W[gc]
;B[ge]C[ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: no resign still?
]
;W[ga]C[sisi [-\]: why resign?
]
;B[ia]C[sisi [-\]: close
Theo9000 [3k\]: but lost
]
;W[ko]C[Geng: so a 4 point reduction?
]
;B[kq]C[bubba [4d\]: they got this far...they'll play it out now
Wasp [-\]: its not really close....
protoday: resign in sente
]
;W[io]
;B[ho]C[Wasp [-\]: if you count youwould know
]
;W[gn]
;B[go]C[Wasp [-\]: they're playing on a real board
Wasp [-\]: no misclicking
dosaku [?\]: they just misclicked
gloooomph [1k\]: these are very strong
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: =P haha
gloooomph [1k\]: they can misclick where they like
tneva82 [17k\]: so misplacement. Stone slips from finger or something :D
Wasp [-\]: lol
Sheriffi [-\]: I've missclicked on real board
yhtut [10k\]: B+1.5?
ARRGHHH: peoople have put stones on the wrong stone place on real boards
gloooomph [1k\]: if its a hot day the board could set on fire
liusasori [3d\]: b + 10,5
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: spontaneous combustion
ARRGHHH: angry audience member could flip the board
sisi [-\]: b 186 w 178
]
;W[en]C[ARRGHHH: "WHY DIDN'T YOU CUT ???" *throws board on floor*
]
;B[qs]
;W[sq]C[Ranchan [-\]: b wins this easily
]
;B[an]
;W[am]
;B[ao]C[protoday: ARRGHHH seeems like he might do this
Bauer [1k\]: b +4
]
;W[ap]
;B[aq]C[Ranchan [-\]: b+3.5
]
;W[bn]
;B[ap]
;W[al]C[ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: beware of live games with ARRGHH watching =P
]
;B[ak]C[bubba [4d\]: wonder how andy will handle having the day off
bubba [4d\]: hope he doesn't mentally unwind too much
ARRGHHH: t1 ko
Mysto [?\]: ...
Tabemasu [7d?\]: +10 seems right
Geng: lol
protoday: bbw is probably watching this game secretly
]
;W[ac]
;B[ad]C[Wasp [-\]: he's logged on tygem
Wasp [-\]: under his normal handle
rlaalswo [1k\]: b winning+10 without komi
]
;W[sr]
;B[nq]
;W[no]
;B[fn]
;W[gm]C[grumpyjoe [-\]: what is his normal handle?
]
;B[ps]
;W[ss]C[Wasp [-\]: its gibberish
]
;B[ik]
;W[hj]C[Wasp [-\]: something like hjgkjldks
Wasp [-\]: or something
Ojisama [-\]: lol at the amount of 9dan on kor1 xD
grumpyjoe [-\]: hdjk---- one?
protoday: china rules?
ARRGHHH: pass ??
Illyria [?\]: hjekshdf?
Wasp [-\]: yeah
grumpyjoe [-\]: ok
gloooomph [1k\]: probably aga rules
Ranchan [-\]: aga rules
spanglish [3k\]: aga rules
Tabemasu [7d?\]: 9.5 i guess
gloooomph [1k\]: the aga are fond of aga rules
]
;B[ac]
;W[aa]C[U505 [7k\]: ing rules
Theo9000 [3k\]: it's aga
Ojisama [-\]: it's japanese for this game
Ranchan [-\]: says aga in the game info
]
;B[]C[Theo9000 [3k\]: ^
]
;W[]TW[ca][da][ea][fa][sa][cb][eb][rb][rc][sc][rd][sd][re][se][qf][rf][sf][og][pg][qg][rg][sg][lh][mh][nh][ph][qh][rh][sh][ji][li][mi][ni][oi][pi][qi][ri][si][jj][lj][mj][nj][oj][pj][qj][rj][sj][kk][lk][mk][nk][ok][pk][qk][rk][sk][ll][ml][nl][ol][ql][rl][sl][km][lm][mm][nm][om][pm][qm][rm][sm][cn][dn][kn][ln][nn][on][pn][qn][rn][sn][qo][ro][so][sp][qq][rq]TB[ja][ka][la][ma][na][oa][jb][kb][lb][mb][nb][ob][jc][kc][lc][nc][jd][kd][md][ae][be][ce][de][ie][ke][le][ne][af][bf][cf][df][ef][ff][hf][if][kf][ag][bg][cg][dg][eg][fg][gg][hg][ig][ah][bh][ch][dh][eh][fh][ai][bi][ci][di][ei][aj][cj][dj][ej][bk][ck][dk][ek][ep][fp][gp][hp][eq][fq][gq][hq][ar][br][cr][dr][er][fr][gr][hr][ir][jr][kr][lr][mr][as][bs][cs][ds][es][fs][gs][hs][is][js][ks][ls][ms][ns]C[Ojisama [-\]: well it's a mistake
rlaalswo [1k\]: I'm not sure if Tygem supports AGA rules
U505 [7k\]: its a simplified Ing rules
Ojisama [-\]: they're not playing on tygem
U505 [7k\]: this is real game
ARRGHHH: wow huge territories
protoday: is this tygem here?
spanglish [3k\]: b+9.5
Babur [1d\]: 194 moves
Wasp [-\]: tthey are playing on a real board
Viheton [-\]: 1. All games will be played by official AGA rules, except as noted below, which take precedence over published rules.
indianayk [4d\]: aga rule and it's 7.5 points komi since w played last. they are on tygem as well.
rlaalswo [1k\]: waiting for result...
dosaku [?\]: good
protoday: w+9.5
Babur [1d\]: b+9.5
tneva82 [17k\]: b+3.5
U505 [7k\]: B+ 2.5 or 3.5?
Theo9000 [3k\]: b+9.5
Theo9000 [3k\]: don't use SE
Mysto [?\]: lol
YumyNugget: se must be brken
U505 [7k\]: SE is perfect
Tabemasu [7d?\]: se doesn't work with aga ruleset
Sheriffi [-\]: Randy is just doing his job
ARRGHHH: CLOSE GAME !
Mef [-\]: SE doesn't like AGA rules
rlaalswo [1k\]: b+3.5 in japanese rules
pinpingho [?\]: SE is bugged when using stone scoring
Viheton [-\]: its allways wrong when it comes to AGA or chinese rules
Theo9000 [3k\]: ^
rlaalswo [1k\]: b wins for sure
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: Nice game
protoday: but w have the biggest territory :(
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: what's the difference in AGA and japanese rules?
U505 [7k\]: AGA = chinese
Jayy [-\]: And 7.5 komi
ILLCoyote1 [4d\]: ah
Ukasuhs [5d?\]: no it doesnt
Theo9000 [3k\]: no it isnt
U505 [7k\]: plus some other rules
rlaalswo [1k\]: Territory vs Area scoring, see Sensei's
ARRGHHH: aga is chinese with contextual superko
Ukasuhs [5d?\]: no it isnt
dosaku [?\]: is there a done button  ?
rlaalswo [1k\]: ILLCoryte1:http://senseis.xmp.net/?AGARules
Wasp [-\]: holy crap
pinpingho [?\]: it try to combine stone scoring and point scoring
Wasp [-\]: you guys are rediculous
pinpingho [?\]: kinda funny
U505 [7k\]: ridiculous either
Wasp [-\]: that too :)
Mef [-\]: AGA is area scoring with situational superko, and some other quirks that allow for either area or territory counting
Illyria [?\]: this tournament uses territory scoring
Illyria [?\]: unless there's a dispute about prisoners
Mef [-\]: No, they use territory _counting_
spanglish [3k\]: cause it's easier to count territory
Mef [-\]: not territory scoring
])
